Draw Through Turbo project for my 2.9 Stroker L series

[A to Z]

11-02-2024.  Well, I found a new project.  An old Crown Turbo kit in pieces, that I am going to clean up and install with a new Trubo, some water/methanol injection, and run it on my 11.54 to 1 compression stroker L series.  I will keep the boost LOW.    It is primarily for looks, and that little shot of power will be cool also.  I am at high elevation, so the overall compression is lower, .....at 5 Psi I will be at 14.27 to 1 compression.  I really only want 3 psi, no more, so that compression figure would be 12.7 to 1.  Methanol water injection 50/50 mix will make the 91 octane act like it's 116 Performance (octane) rating.

[A to Z]

11-02-2024 Turbo project update. Since the turko kit I bought hasn't arrived yet, I started work on an aluminum plate heat barrier around my brake master cylinder. I also went ahead and ordered t a Snow Performance stage 1 water/methanol injection kit, that will make my 11.54 to 1 compression motor survive a little bit of boost on top of it all. I have also decided to go with an internal wastegate, and the video I posted earlier, shows a neat way to lower the boost setting on an internal wastegate with a spring and and a couple spacers. I now want to figure out how the throttle cable or hopefully rods will work for the single SU carb. Here is a quick video and then a few pics of the heat shield, keep in mind, it is NOT finished, just started.     (video from today on post below this)

Edited November 3 by A to Z

[A to Z]

Click to watch video from the above post.

[A to Z]

I was searching online, and this is the cheapest price I found for the Snow Performance Water/Methanol injection Stage 1 kit:

[A to Z]

11-03-2024 Turbo project update. I Went ahead and snagged the turbo for my project. Ebay special... "T3/T4 T04E V-BAND Turbocharger Turbo .63 A/R with Internal Wastegate New"

The seller is "TurboBoosts" which has a really good reputation. Good cheap unit for what I am doing, just putting around town in my toy a little bit

Here is the link if interested

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203047116629

Here are some pics

Edited November 3 by A to Z
Jesus Is Lord

[A to Z]

Turbo Specifications:

Exhaust Inlet (Turbo Manifold) Flange: T3 T4 4 bolt Flange Patterns

Exhaust Outlet Flange: V-Band Flange (ID/OD: 2.5"/3.1")

Turbine Side:

Turbine Trim: 74.2

Turbine A/R: 0.63

Turbine Inducer: 64.8mm

Turbine Exducer: 55.8mm

Turbine exhaust outlet : 79mm

Turbine exhaust inlet: 44.7mm（length）/85.8mm（width）

Compressor Side:Compressor Trim: 48.1

Compressor A/R: 0.5

Compressor Inducer: 52.7mm

Compressor Exducer: 76mm

Compressor outlet:78 mm

Compressor inlet:51.5 mm

Bearing: Journal Bearing

Cooling Type: Oil Cooled

Wastegate: Internal Wastegate

Thrust Bearings: 270 Degrees

Hosepower: Up to 420 HP

Turbo Type: Individual

Condition: 100% Brand New

Accessories: You will get exactly as shown as picture above

Package Size: 30x 28x 24 cm

Package Weight: 9180g

 

•  

[A to Z]

Features:

-High Quality Material, Cast Housing with Durable Steel

-Boost Engine Horsepower Significantly

-Increase Engine Power and Torque Outpout;

-Maintain Combustion Chamber Pressure and Fuel/Air Load

-Contructed with High Quality Material

-Built for Durability and Strength

OUR ADVANTAGE

1.100% BALANCING TEST, This Turbocharger you will receive has been balanced using the VSR machine technology.

Through the comprehensive and high-precision static and dynamic balance detection technology, and reliability.

2. All of the materials we use are the best materials,and we believe that only the best materials will guarantee the life of the turbo.

Turbine Wheel: the special K418 alloy to achieve stability under high temperatures up to 900 degrees Celsius, and never use K13 Inconel alloy.

Turbine housing : Ductile iron QT450-10 can withstand temperatures up to 700 degrees Celsius

Aluminum blades : Precision machining forging. The lightweight design enables reduced noise and increased response without compromising comfort or longevity

*Factory direct price, ship worldwide; Offering any turbo part leading 2 years warranty under normal use, unlimited mileage.

2 YEARS WARRANTY

Factory direct price, ship worldwide; Offering any turbo part leading 2 years warranty under normal use, unlimited mileage.

[A to Z]

11-06-2024 Turbo project update: I have decided to not use the SU carburetor....I am switching to the Mikuni HSR 45mm carb. It's a motorcycle carb, and some of you have seen how guys use multiple ones instead of sidedraft carbs. I reached out to John at V Performance, and he is going to build and prep one for my setup. NO BUTTERFLIES! Butterflies in a draw through turbo cause a real vacuum problem, and is terribly hard on turbochargers, especially the seals. For years, guys have been adding "carbon seals" to combat this issue...this should combat the issue, and it has the benefits of having an accelerator pump, it's a true 45mm bore all teh way through and many other benefits. Here is an excerpt from a Corvair Forum from guys using it on their draw through Turbo Corvairs: Mikuni HSR carbs were last used in O.E. applications on Harley motorcycles and also Yamaha's. kmart356 over at Corvair Center has been a pioneer in using this carburetor, and he worked with the folks at Vintage Performance to make it happen! Slide carbs have always been a better carb than butterfly types because the fuel air ratio can track the actual airflow over a wide range of throttle openings and flow much more air for their size than a butterfly type can. They have a natural variable venturi as opposed to a fixed venturi and variable area like butterfly types. Also, because of the slide movement, area is gained in a proportional way instead of a wild magnetic hysterisis type curve that is typical of a butterfly opening. They were the last carburetors used in F1 before going to fuel injection!!
Perhaps these would have been used in automotive applications more often long ago, but the big bugger in the old days was that the only other application for them were small displacement motorcycles and those did not need accelerator pumps so they didnt have them! The HSR's do have accelerator pumps and do lend themselves to automotive use. The HSR45 is an ideal fit for use on the F-flow Corvair Turbo, as it is nearly the same size as the turbo inlet!

 

Edited November 6 by A to Z
Jesus Is Lord

[A to Z]

Performance Parts - Vintage Performance Developments

Edited November 6 by A to Z
Jesus Is Lord

[Enzo250gto]

Hello from Australia, back in the early 80's I was a distributor for Normalair Garret turbo kits. The crown kit is similar to what we used. SU and CD Stromberg carbs were the preferred carburettor for a drawn through system. Being a constant velocity carburettor which had a butterfly and a piston. Air velocity raised the piston which had the correct turbo needle fitted to it for correct fuel air mixture. If you stood on the accelerator and the butterfly was fully opened the air flow was restricted till the piston started to move up and allow more fuel/air to enter the turbo. To keep the compression ratio at about 7.5:1 a decompression plate was fitted between two head gaskets. Boost was limited. Carbon seals are necessary because a fuel/air mixture is being drawn into the turbo, unlike a blown through system or EFI with the fuel being injected after the turbo. 

We ran SU's and CD Strombergs on our street cars and usually DCOE Webers on race cars. The Mikuni HSR are a great carby. I have a pair on my 260Z. By the way. With a draw through system, don't use an intercooler. The metanol injection will keep the fuel/air cooler. We were new to turbo's in the early 80's so we used reservoirs with water and methylated with a windscreen washer pump to inject through the air cleaner into the compressor to keep the air/fuel charge cooler. It worked.

Good luck with your project. Keep the compression down and keep it simple.  

Cheers David.

[A to Z]

Thanks mate.

 

[A to Z]

As I mentioned, I went ahead and ordered a Mikuni HSR motorcycle carb from V Performance, who modifies/adapts them for automotive use. This will be a HUGE improvement over a factory Hitachi SU carb. $660.00 though.   My Snow Performance Water/Methanol kit arrived, and I decided to order a second nozzle to spread them out across the log intake. VERY disappointed to see the nozzles they send are not very good as far as sizing, and the second nozzle kit I ordered doesn't even come with a nozzle, So yeah....I had to order 2 nozzles that combined will be the right size from MAPerformance (two 1.0 GPH nozzles)....another 70 bucks.  I pretty much have chased down all the parts needed to start the project. Anyone else used the HSR carb? I understand the Corvair guys are are starting to use them. 

 

 

Edited November 7 by A to Z

[A to Z]

11-08-2023 Turbo Project Update: My Turbo it's a "Turbone M12" and my turbo oil lines arrived today, and I laid out the Snow Performance Water/Methanol injection Stage 1 kit today, and got it "sorted". Awaiting more parts. See attached pics.

Edited November 9 by A to Z
Jesus is the Living Son of God

[A to Z]

11-10-2024 Turbo project update.  I started on the interior, mounting the relay and boost pressure switch for the Snow Performance Water/Methanol injection, and then went ahead and removed the 432R stereo delete plate, and re-routed the wires for my A/F ratio gauge down to that area.  I bought a 3 gauge pod panel from Milkfab Engineering to go in there.  I will house my AEM A/F ratio gauge, my AEM boost gauge, and my J&S engine knock/ignition retard gauge.  AFter that I went  and started on the Crown intake plate.  I decided to prep the piece for polishing by removing all the fins and stuff so it is smooth, and then I drilled and tapped for the Water/Methanol spray jets.  Yeah, the holes aren't perfectly aligned...I double measured, dang......but I can make it look good once installed.  I also worked on the aluminum block that mounts the carburetor to the turbo.  I can't believe how rough cast it was inside the bore area. I  can't believe the previous owner mounted it and used it like that.  I went ahead and cleaned it up.  So those 2 pieces are going to J&S Polishing in Colorado Springs in a day or two and will be a thing of beauty when I get them back.  I have attached pics, and added a pic from Milkfab of a 280Z gauge pod with gauges, as they didn't have a 240Z pic, and the other pic is also from them, to get an idea.  Thanks!

Edited November 11 by A to Z
Jesus Is Lord

[A to Z]

Many guys have done high compression and boost. the main issue is detonation. The way to curb the detonation is with water/Methanol injection. The other way is through a knock sensor (J&S Safeguard) that pulls the timing to each cylinder individually. I have elected to do both. My setup is a mild turbo setup......it is mainly for looks. As a by product I'll gain 20-30 horsepower minimum. This is a hobby car, and this is fun.  I set it up and run it, if it is rich, then I turn the boost up little by little until it isn't rich anymore. same with timing, as much timing as I can get away with, and if it is rich or lean, change a jet in the carb. when it is running great and the A/F Ratio is good, then that's it. Whatever the boost level is....I'll know then. I anticipate 5-7 psi. 5500-6000 redline. I like torque.

[A to Z]

11-16-2024 TURBO PROJECT UPDATE:  wow...busy day.  I got my down pipe cleaned up and ready for some welding....V band on the top, flange on the bottom and a bung for my A/F down low.  I have a length of flex pipe to get in there when I connect the pipes together.  I also went ahead and cut off the old Rayjay flange on the J pipe and I got a T3 flange...sure wish they hadn't chrome plated it.  Then I took some time to try and clean up the ports on it a bit. Looks like my welder will have to fill in around the pipe where it meets the flange...maybe plate steel on the outside and fill it in on the back side?  We'll see.  My crown turbo inlet to carb spacer piece I cut down and got my 2 inch to 3 inch hose to fit on nice....just needs a coat of paint.  After getting all of that done, I went ahead and mounted my Snow Performance water/meth injection tank and pump and ran the lines between them.  Almost all the parts I need have now arrived, so now it is just welding and then putting it all together.  V Performance modded Mikuni HSR 45 Carb and J&S Safeguard (knock protection) are still enroute.  Pics follow. Cheers!

 

Edited Sunday at 04:05 AM by A to Z
Jesus Is Lord

[A to Z]

I dropped my turbo in the mail today to go to G Pop Shop to have it updated with Carbon seals, which apparently are necessary when using a draw through turbo system. I also dropped off my J pipe to get a T3 flange welded on, and my down pipe to weld on a V band clamp, M11x18.5 bung for my AEM A/F gauge and a flange on the bottom at Juggernaut Welding. We go forward. https://www.gpopshop.com/

[A to Z]

Link for Juggernaut welding.  Cool website.     https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.juggernautwelding.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3EGU-Dqu0cfw2_m63F1YQu-CW318pQXZ_Ush6pggNbeHl8OQNLlR5f4Do_aem_ac5vXnq35WvOclQePkEbLw&h=AT0IhM7k5JMUmU4Da3JegoaFkYJi94JIpgCojduk9VuiZ3kpkgxoK37LEOmHxABvp0Qgj1AMVoPGScUuqmDpxbOOvHp49FuU_pWfpnWcuXN7KiwxEevWjswpH2lwGYs0zxUv&__tn__=R-R&c[0]=AT0k28CDcTUFU3EQVKLS_gVtj8TBYncoOs4GZlXwfM6VDYMIzCwzP9MPcYCFw4y3NS1BI57rNbNSol7ImG8BcVDJcAprSLckoG-ozRnwxaGlgyKOmnoft5id6PzK8HDN8Yp_cPwaTN1lvmKYXbH5BnMZry1voXvE41Pgor9jpkmGgKsmUBRJLQOD-UE7ya_Gklr_D1ctMJ6NDJcQqPqokvOZBxoP2M_8

Edited Monday at 06:28 PM by A to Z
Jesus is the Living Son of God

[A to Z]

$195 ish for the carbon seals installed along with a rebalancing of the turbo wheels, and a thorough checkup for the turbo. It makes my turbo just that much better. Granted its Journal bearing instead of Ball bearing, for my uses, it is fine. On a Draw through Turbo, the vacuum created by the carb being in front of the turbo, tends to cause turbos to leak oil by pulling oil through the seals and burning it, leaving a blue smoke cloud behind you when driving along. This alleviates that.

[A to Z]

 

Turbo guru's please read:

I have the T3 Turboboosts M12 turbocharger I got off of eBay, and because of what I have learned on here and other pages....being a draw through setup with crown manifolds, etc., I have sent the turbo off to "G POP Shop" in Arkansas to gee carbon seals installed, and the hot side is getting their high temp coating in Titanium finish, and I am having the compressor side powder coated in gold. Since it is there, I am thinking about possibly having a custom hot side wheel put in to create a faster spool. It has journal bearings, which doesn't bother me as this is just a weekend around town toy.

The Specifics of the turbo are:

Compressor : Inducer 52.7mm, exducer (outer diamter) 76

Ex turbine: exducer 55.8mm, Inducer ( outer diameter) 64.8

Trim: 48.1

A/R .50

420 HP Rated.

Going on to a 171 cubic inch (2859cc) inline six cylinder

Any opinions on exhaust wheel sizes, etc., that will help deal with a 4000 RPM spool, outside of manifold work and larger down pipe enlarging etc. I am thinking custom wheel(s). Not sure if porting would help either.

P.S. I was shocked to find out Garrett turbos are made in Shanghai, CHINA.