Guest Frank280z Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 My car doesn't start as quick as it should. I want to take the distributor out again and set it back to get it right. Can you guys give me any info on dropping the distributor.I know that #1 cyl. has to be up. And somewhere I read that it comes up twice? And that the distr. should be dropped in on the first"up"?? Thanks Frank280z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 are you sure that your timing is the issue? they may be many reasons for an engine to be hard to start... you can loosen the distributor bolt and slowly rotate the distributor either way to see if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 You have the basics but there is a whole lot more to it then just droping it in. The first thing I would do is check your timing. If it is in range then taking out the distributor won't accomplish a thing. If it is so far out that twisting it won't bring it back in then I might think about removing it. The placement of the number one plug wire in the dristubtor is just a relative position and all the other wires follow in their firing order. I have been know to shift wires on direction or another in order to get a relative good timing mark indication......but it is hell on the next guy that gets the car when he tries to locate the number one plug and it is off. One other thing you need to keep in mind is that when you remove the distributor you need to ensure that the notch in the oil pump lines up with the distributor pump blade (screwdrive looking blade at the botton of the distributor gear) or it won't drop in. If you do this all the time it is not hard.....but for the first time it can be a b..ch because the distributor twists about an 1/16 of a turn when it drops in. good luck Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank280z Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Initially dropped the distr. in with one all the way up. With the harmonic bal. mark on the factory timing tab o.(I also turn the oil pump shaft to 5:00 to line the rotor to plug wire of choice.)I thought that the timing tab was for the eight inch harmonic that I replaced with a six for the clearance issue. So I replaced it with a Trans Dapt. that sits very much on the side of the cover. The distr.now goes with that tab.But I think I'm going to drop it back to the factory tab and go from there. I spoke to a local mechanic about this and he said to go off of the tab that the cover has from the factory. ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Instead of lining up the ballancer to 0, line it up to 12 - 15 degrees (or whatever you want your initial timing setting to be)then instal your distributor. This way your timing should be nearly perfect when you fire the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Frank, instead of guessing where TDC for #1 is, I'd say measure it. I'm going to put forth a method for finding it with the heads on below, if you need to know one: Get a TDC stop that screws into the spark plug hole. You have to be VERY careful when using one though, so you don't knock a hole in the piston. NEVER use the starter or roll the car to bump the engine around when using one of these. Take all the plugs out, get the TDC close according to the pointer, and screw in the TDC stop into the number 1 spark plug hole (left front cylinder on the SBC). Then using a rachet and the correct size socket for the crank pulley center bolt (if you have one), turn the engine back away from TDC VERY SLOWLY and EASILY until you touch the piston onto the TDC stop. Read the degree under the pointer off the balancer if the numbers go that far, or mark it with something where the pointer is. Then turn it (SLOWLY and EASILY) the other way until you just touch the piston to the TDC stop and read or mark the spot on the balancer under the pointer. If you had numbers you could read off of the balancer from both "stops" above, do the math to find the half way point. For example, if it stopped at 22 degrees BTDC in one direction and it stopped at 18 degrees ATDC the other way, the halfway point is : 22 BTDC + (22+18)/2 = 2 degrees BTDC. That is your actual TDC mark using that pointer in that position. If you didn't have number marks in both locations, take a flexible measuring tape (steal your mom's, sister's, etc. sewing tape) and measure the distance between the two points with the tape laying on the outside diameter of the balancer. Mark the 1/2 distance between them onto the balancer. In other words if there are 2 inches between the marks, mark it 1 inch from one of them. Take the TDC stop out and turn the engine until it lines up with the halfway point you put on the balnacer. Either remark the balancer or move the pointer so that it reads TDC with the engine rotated to that position. You now have a fairly accurate TDC mark. This becomes important for cam timing mostly, but it's nice to know where your ignition timing really is. Just be REALLY slow and easy turning the motor over only by hand when using a spark plug hole TDC stop! ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 I know your engine is running, but for those who can't get it to fire but have the engine at TDC, you might have the distributor 180 degrees out: The cam turns at half crank speed, so it is in the correct position for firing the ignition only one of the two times the crank is at TDC for number one during two rotations of the crank. Make sure that when the #1 piston is at/near (8-12 degrees before TDC is good), the intake valve has almost closed. That is TDC for firing. The other TDC is the end of the exhaust stroke, and it ain't going to ignite anything if you have it firing at that TDC. If you're not sure which TDC you have (relative to the cam), try pulling the distributor and rotating it 180 degrees and putting it back in. If it runs then, you had it 180 degrees out. Guys, do I have this right? ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I have rebuilt and or re-installed many engines and have experienced pretty much every possible variation on the plug wire/distributor screwup. There's the reverse direction firing order. That one's fun, especially when the engine runs - just not well - much head scratching. 180 degrees out is popular with me. You can usually install the cap 180 degrees "wrong" to check this one. The most recent was on my L28. I put in the distributor from my L24 and somehow it was mounted 15 degrees out. It has stops that limit rotation, so I cranked it as far as it could go, but it just wasn't enough. Took awhile to see the mounting screws that allowed it to be mounted 15 either way. Of course I first checked absolutely every other possibility.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank280z Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Thanks for all the info Pete. I'll try the TDC stop. I'll let you know how it works out. Things were a lot easier when my dad did it for me. Thanks again. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 6, 2000 Share Posted June 6, 2000 Frank, As I had mentioned before if you can set the timing correctly then it surves no purpose to remove and reinstall the distributor. If you do not start quickly then you may have other problems associated with the ignition system or even fuel. If you don't have a new cap, rotor, plugs, plug wires and a high voltage coil I would do that first and set the timing at about 8 degrees BTDC (for a stock engine). If that doesn't help then I would look at the fuel delivery system. When I had a QJet it cranked a while before it started....then I went to an injection system and it starts up on the second crank no matter how cold it is. Good luck on all. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank280z Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 Pete, I have everything new under the hood of this car. Totaly rebuilt hei including Accels cap,rotor,hp coil, wires, plugs. The engine was build with edlebrocks combo for 425-450 horse. Machine shop told me 12 degrees initial. I'll be going at it this weekend. Along with my strut/spring install.I let you know. Thanks again. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 A really boneheaded simple way of determining your compression stroke for #1: Hold your thumb over the spark plug hole (or just loosen the plug slightly. Turn the engine over by hand. As it comes up to TDC you will hear air escaping past your thumb. Thats your compression stroke! BTW I don't feel timing tabs are hugely useful. They are only a reference point to start from. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 look if your only installing a distrib after a manifold swap, ITS not complicated, pull the #1 plug and put you thumb over the hole tightly, turn the engine in the normal dirrection of rotation, with a breaker bar and scocket untill you get compression in the #1 cylinder, as the damper TDC line approches the TDC timing tab, drop the distributor in with the rotor facing the #1 cylinder,compensate for the way the distrib gear causes the rotor to rotate as in seats,so its seated pointing where you intended, if it won,t fully seat turn the oil pump drive with a very large flat blade screw driver untill it will,with the distrib removed and try again, once it seats,facing the correct dirrection, install and tighten the distrib clamp so its difficult to spin the distrib easily by hand but still possiable to spin the distrib by hand, re-install the #1 plug and wire, install the cap and all ignition related wires, use your timing light and set the ignition timing,per the shop manuals instructions, tighten the distibutor hold clamp so it can,t move, IF it takes more than 10 minutes your in need of more practice or nearly hopeless as a mechanic.The CLOYES true roller style is vastly superior to the factory link belt design how come its 180 degs out of phase? I get this question all the time, well here’s something I see lots of guys don’t understand, ONCE YOUVE INSTALLED A CAM WITH THE TIMEING MARKS YOU MUST ROTATE THE CRANK 360 DEGRESS BEFORE DROPPING IN THE DISTRIBUTOR, while its true that if the, timing marks are positioned so the crank is at 12 o,clock and the cam gear is at 6 o,clock that the cam lobes will be in the position that fires #6 cylinder that HAS NO EFFECT AT ALL (on finding TDC,) for aligning the degree wheel with TDC,or THE timing tab pointer, for degreeing in the cam, the piston passes thru TDC TWICE in every firing cycle once on the firing/power stroke and once on the exhaust stroke, the cam rotates at exactly 1/2 the speed of the crank so to make it easy to line up the marks they install it with the marks at the closest point 6/12 for easy indexing, rotate the engine 360 degrees to the #1 TDC power stroke and the crank gear will still be at 12 oclock 12/12 but the cam will be at 12 o,clock also, rotate another 360 degrees and your back where you started. its simply easier to index the cam at the point where the index marks align closely. look at how the cam lobes themselves open the valves when the cam is just installed the #1 cylinder valves are slightly open and the #6 are closed per "Lunati" ‘’YES YOU ARE RIGHT - WHEN CRANK IS AT TWELVE AND CAM IS AT SIX THEN #6 CYL IS FIRING AFTER YOU LINE UP YOUR MARKS AND INSTALL GEAR THEN ROTATE YOUR CRANK ONE REVOLUTION AND THEN DROP THE DIST. IN - AT THAT POINT http://boxwrench.net/specs/chevy_sb.htm drop the distrib in with the rotor pointing at the #1 cylinder, and YEAH! it physically possiable to get the distributors rotor to point at any place you want it too by changing the oil pump drive shaft alignment with a large flat blade screw driver while the distributors out of the engine and thats easily changed, but to do it correctly,you want the rotor to point at the #1 cylinder on the compression stroke, so pull the #1 plug, get a large ratchet/socket on the damper and put your finger over the open plug hole and slowly rotate the engine by hand in its normal rotational dirrection untill you see pressure build under your finger as the rotor approaches #1 cylinder location on the distributor base which you should have marked as its supposed to be in dirrect alignment between the distrib and the number 1 cylinder on the engine, remember the distributor and cam gears are heilical and the rotor turns as it seats so compensate slightly. and the rotor should be just coming into alignment as pressure builds under your finger, once thats done re-install the distrib cap and plug and use a timing light to set the timing, you normally want about 6-12 degrees BTDC at idle and watch it advance to about 37 degrees as the rpms build to about 3000rpmok, then have you checked the distributor to oil pump drive shaft length?, IF YOUR DISTRIB LEAKS OIL AROUND THE BASE GASKET.. it seems the distrib is not seating fully against the intake ring gasket and the distrib to oil pump drive is suspected of being a bit to long, there should be about .050 slack MINIMUM between the oil pump drive shaft and the distrib gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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