Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 PhaTTy, when I look at my own cars, bang for the buck is almost ALWAYS #1, and your going to spend how much on a simple intake system? You are going way, way beyond what is neccessary. For $4000 you could have between a 400-550 HP V8, but going back to the turbo car... I'm not sure what this intake system is your talking about, was it your plan to chop it up to fit onto an L28ET? I am entertained by the idea of a custom intake, but again with bang for the buck in mind, not spending $1000 or more on nothing but bling bling pimpin parts that do nothing in real life. The only times you should look at spending massive dough on components, is when your shooting for top gun HP, and your not looking at anything even on the same planet as top gun. Pay attention to the basics like fuel delivery, figure an air intake system thats improved a bit, get the car running. From there upgrade in pieces, dont forget your intercooler, injectors, fuel pump, work all these things together with the idea of what your grand scheme is for expected HP levels, if you want 400 HP at some point, get the setup for 400 HP and simply play with your fuel pressure to dumb it down and make the car driveable. Without going to an aftermarket computer, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator is the only way I know of to "tune" these cars. I would love to have an aftermarket setup, but they are too much $$$ and I am not looking for uber-pimp horsepower, the most I'd ever shoot for on this engine is probably 350-400 HP. I'm going through the archives to educate myself, I'm only on page 19 (started at the back). There is some good info to dig through, but for our expected meager HP levels look at BASICS, if you start off with dreamy pimp parts the money will be gone very fast, and you wont be much better off, if any better off at all. PUT YOUR IDEAS ON PAPER This really really helps, I can think things in my head pretty well, but I'm sure you know by now that it can be deceptive! Small things add up FAST, and dreams are crushed when put on paper. I am sure that I could easily spend another 50%-250% and only get another 10%-20% performance overall, out of the car. Look at the HP you want, plan out how to get there, and scribble those parts down and get prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Right on Mudge.. Put it down on paper. its the little things that get ya. Sorry to sound harsh, but I've been on the Z scene for almost 15 years, and I've heard a ton of guys wanting to do all kinds of crazy stuff. You will always hear of some guy who did a turbo install and plumbed a wild i/c into a stock 240 that he bought, and claim a total of $2K invested! If you have access to full machine shop facilities for free, have access to lots of parts on the cheap or free, then yea it can happen. For the average Joe, a 350hp+ Z is gonna run ya $5-10K.. or more in engine, suspension, electronics, brakes, etc.. I am one of the guys who does not have access to those types of things, and thus I have to pay, and a 400+hp engine is gonna run you $8K min. (turbo engine.. installed) My hybrid t3/t4 turbo was $700.00.. plus new oil lines/mounting bolts, gaskets etc.. $1200 for engine balanceing/ shotpeening. $450 for complete engine gasket kit. $400 for bearings/seals/ etc.. another $500+ for misc sensors that needed replacing. $400++ for hyd lifters $400 for new turbo oil pump $600 for oil cooler and all aeroquip fittings $250 for high flow fuel pump $400 for fuel reg and all aeroquip fittings $700 for custom bent exhaust and ss muffler $1000 for rod and crank polishing $1000 for kick ass head porting. ++++ for install and fix any other probs (while its apart syndrome) And if your swapping in different engines ie V8's V6's other mfg etc... Custom made mounts, custom steering mods maybe custom driveshaft custom shift linkages custom throttle linkages custom exhaust custom trany mounts modified suspension to compesate for weight differences etc. body and frame mods for clearances. Now that adds up. And I talk from experience on ALL of them. A good I/C is gonna run you $100++ for a USED one piping another $100.. including mandrel curves. Another $100 for pipe couplers,and quality clamps. Trial and error $ and time will need to be factored in as well. I spent the whole Frickin summer tweaking my i/c pipes so they would not blow off under high boost.. (very common in custom setups) Now as far as documentation, there is nothing better documented than the JTR manual for V 8's.. Every other mod including L28 turbo swaps have been done from cheap cheap, to mega, and everything inbetween. access to engines and parts are critical.. Ie if you can't find it at your local wrecking yard...Nissan is $$$$ Good luck finding a L28 turbo engine in my area.. I have seen 3-5 in my area over the last 15 years!!!!!! thats it.. Heck LSD's are so rare around here, $500 will get you an unknown diff in unknown condition, but many go for much much more.. Lesser done swaps like Buicks, supra motors, skylines etc... there is far and few info available.. almost everyone that has done it has been mostly on their own, and many that to reinvent the wheel to get things done. An L 28 will take a lot of abuse, and there are some pretty tried and true methods for extracting 350 hp from them... more than that its less tried and proven, and if you want it to last,...cubic dollars are needed.. (more than 1-2 years between rebuild.) Nothing like spending every bit of cash.. going that extra mile, only to have to rebuild it 2 years later, can be murder on the pocket book..or murder from the wife..hehe i see you have some #s now.. thats good.. keep narrowing it down. I also agree on maybe not spending 2K on a 6=8 intake (whatever that is) A stock intake will get you a long ways, and there is a ton of better things worth spending limited funds on. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 hey PhaTTy, you said ur on a budget so forget a twin turbo setup... really just forget it.. also forget N/A L28ET, im sure it can be done on a budget but im not to sure if it can be done on pump gas and driven everyday. it seems like your young kid, by reading a few of your post, im young too...19. now i have been the biggest nissan/Z fan for the longest time, i have owned a Z32 300zx (still do but going away), and i know have the money to START on my project... and yes im on a budget too, but after sitting down and doing some math i figure its gonna be around 20 grand to "make." now im like you, i want a car i can drive everyday on pump gas, and roll up to a 11sec viper and spank him... and sense im really big into street racing i figure for the money the L28ET can get that done for me. know the reason why im not going V8 is the fact that ppl will know the V8 Z is fast, but if they look at the l28 sitting there (doesnt look like much) they wont think its fast and race for how ever much money. remember its just not the motor thats gonna get your going fast, its suspension, tires, rear end, gears and so on. it adds up. do some home work and see what you can build with-in ur budget. good luck. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Twin turbo would be so "neat" but it is a pain, you'd need to fab the header and deal with all that plumbing, and more intercooler woes than before. You will still make great bottom end with a single, if anything there are guys complaining that they just spin and have too much bottom end power Sad but true, the little expenses add up, and the oft described "while your at it" syndrome which is so true, and this is where reality sets in hard This is why off the bat, I was scared of a turbo setup, because of all the not only tech that is involved, but I'm very new to turbo stuff, and I also have to deal with 91 craptane gas, and got the feeling that nothing was very possible power wise on our pump gas. Then you have the intercooler issue, thankfully I found out they aren't too pricey on eBay, and if needed on race days I can run some tolulene or just plain 100 octane or whatever is available. Going beyond the powerplant, you will want to upgrade your rear probably, you will want more wheels/tires, you may want to fix up some rust that you will find, new paint, yada yada. A project is never ending, and can very easily soak up ridiculous money, all these things hit home so hard that again I am a bang for the buck person. I have known guys that spent 4k on lightweight forged wheels, about $1200 on tires, and then complain how they can't afford a heads/cam swap... But to save 2 pounds a wheel versus another companies race wheels (and this person doesn't even race), they spent almost 3 grand more than a set of 17x11" and 17x9.5" that would have done the same job, but of course didn't have the same bling bling value. I am a big dreamer too, but you have to be reasonable, because it just isn't feasible. People that dont do thier own work could have $80,000 cars that run 11s, guys that do thier own work could just as easily have a $20,000 car that runs 11s with lots of parts that may not really be needed, but again there are things that you will want to have, wether convenience or maybe a dressup item or two, cool seats to hold you in down, and etc! Sooooo many things. 400 HP on 15x6" wheels is just not going to cut it, neither did 411 RWHP on 255/50-16" tires, it was ridiculous, so upgrades are a given Then you could find a person with a $5000 car that does all thier own work, and runs 11s, with only bare essentials (I dare you to try and find one though, but I bet they are out there! Like the $1000 5.0 swapper, its almost unthinkable). Anyway I'm blabbing, and I need to put things on paper more solidly also just to get the thing running and in my 240Z! Much less all hopped up and putting serious numbers out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 recently got a ride in my buddies 240 with L28et, hybrid turbo, 55mm tb massive spearco with 2.5 inch intercooler piping, 2.5 inch exhaust, scotties dp, and 10psi, with the rest being stock efi components, he dynoed 290hp and 320lbs going lean at 4500 @13psi, but at 10spi making 270 and 299ft rich enough to 6200 on a 10,000 mile rebuilt L28et with no aftermarket components, he runs 13.3@108 with no traction until third gear on Drag Radials. we discussed what he could do to make more power and we both came to the same conclusion--------CAR IS DONE to make more he would have to go to standalone with more timing, bigger injectors, blah blah blah, we arent interested in standalone, to us, thats no fun at all, the fun for us is that we run a nice factory efi system with all factory components and make good power out of it, he actually isnt doing anything to the car and is considering parting it out so he can finish his talon, which with bald tires is going 13.8@98 with a dead hole. Now i know what a t3-t4 feels like, and I dont want one now, i just want a big t3 or even a stock rebuilt one that will make me boost from 2-5500---his t04b-t3 is making boost from 3-6k, and he starts goign a little lean at 6, if i can get 12psi from the t3 consistent i can make near the same power levels as the hybrid turbo car can, with a shift towards low-mid range vs. his mid to high range powerband-his car freakin flies. to those who seek more hp and go standalone with the six and turbo, more power to you its great, but at those money levels youre not far from putting a v8 into your car type expenses-and if it comes to that point for me----------I would either stop working on the car and start the body sooner, or Im gonna drop a 355 TPI with blower pistons,steel crank,pocket ported heads, and a 100shot juicy with a beefed up 200r4 and go for 11s with the AC on. just my thoughts-because i will NOT go to standalone, im keeping it nissan, and if it makes me mad enough--I WILL GO BACK TO MY FIRST LOVE, THE SBC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 400 HP on 15x6" wheels is just not going to cut it... Oh yeah? I have turbo swastica wheels with 22x8 slicks that say different (Don't have 400hp though...yet) And read the latest SportZ magazine too, seems like Brock agrees with me on tires as well - wide is "fashionable", but not necessarily better for grip... (yes, I'm rambling, and Brock was talking about high speed stuff using downforce, but the principles apply). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 400 HP on 15x6" wheels is just not going to cut it... Oh yeah? I have turbo swastica wheels with 22x8 slicks that say different (Don't have 400hp though...yet) Oh well, you got me then I run Yoko AVS Intermediates on the Camaro, 160 treadwear, too bad they are NLA. Sumitomo HTR Z look pretty good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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