Do you pass on grass?

[Guest Thurem]

Hey

You left out one option in the poll: Do smoke it, do not support legalization. Any drugdealer would tell you it would be bad for bizz if it got legalized.

I'm not a dealer, by the way. And it should be legal, but the reason its not is because too many people make money from it being illegal. A lot of prisons are privately owned, I bet the owners of those would lobby to keep it illegal. A study on who and why people make money from the drugtrade would be interresting. Also what would happen if it got legalized.

Thure

[mobythevan]

Man I pass whenever I get the chance, I pass on the grass, on the sidewalk and on the gravel

 

Only time I'll be smokin grass is when I can't get enough traction in the median to pass that line of cars

 

I never smoked it and never will, but I've been with my friends several times when they do it right in front of me and offer it to me. I don't think less of people that do it, that is their choice. Unless it causes harm to someone else, then that is different IMO. My friends never thought less of me for not doing it and they certainly wouldn't have been friends if they did. I'm a believer that everything should be done in moderation, except speeding

[Heavy Z]

Let's see,

 

1. America's #1 growth industry = the prison system ($31 million/day)

 

2. Prison population = 75% in on drug charges.

 

3. African americans make up only 17% of U.S. citzens arrested on drug charges, but they account for 74% of all drug convictions involving incarceration.

 

4. There isn't gonna be much rehab going on with 'big Willie' as a bunkmate.

 

Possibly it's time to re-evaluate our motivations regarding the 'race' war on drugs...

[Mudge]

4. There isn't gonna be much rehab going on with 'big Willie' as a bunkmate.

 

It would rehab me I think!

 

I dont think its a race war, unless they are the ones just getting cought more often. I think that black people much up such a large part of prison population for obvious reason(s), growing up impoverished for the most part. When people have virtually no money crime goes through the roof all the time, when people grow up in families with 12 kids, it can happen as well. I dont think large families are a good idea, I dont think they are socially responsible in todays world, and I dont believe you can do as good a job parenting versus having one or two kids to mentor as they grow up. Obviously there are exceptions.

[Mudge]

One thing to think about maybe, is that weed is a "gateway" drug, people sometimes move from that to something harder later on. So perhaps I could understand the thinking, that outlawing the little guy keeps people using less hardcore stuff. I never thought about doing heroin, crack or any stuff like that though, and I'm sure others likewise wouldn't touch it.

[Heavy Z]

Mudge you've got a good point, mine was a slightly different angle. What I'm getting at is that one out of every six people busted for drugs is black(few), but three out of every four drug offenders sent to jail is black(many). Doesn't that seem unusual? You spoke of economic disadvantage, which certainly is part of this considering legal fees. However the incarceration rate indicates too wide a margin to just be economic, as there are plenty of poor white, hispanic, or other folks out there getting cought doing drugs too.

[KiD-ViD]

hitting on the gateway part of it...I have some friends who are into weed pretty hardcore and everytime I see them they are stoned. also 2 of them sell it. well recently I found out that these guys did shrooms which isnt too bad but it means they have moved up. but even more recently I found out they do coke on a regular basis too. now I am scared for them. these people did use weed as a gateway drug. however, the rest of my friends who smoke it only do it occasinally and just for fun in a group setting. (the other guys would smoke alone and all that.) I think that in moderation weed is not a gateway drug. but once you get heavily into it you feel the need to move on to somthing that will give you a bigger high. this will be the case wether it is legal or not. Nevada has proposed to make small amounts of weed legal. so if it passes it will be a good trial run to see how it will effect things.

[Guest subdermal]

Hmm.. I wasn't going to post until I saw the last few comments. Weed is not a gateway drug, simply because there is no such thing. Msot people who smoke weed for the first time have already tried alcohol - does that make alcohol a gateway drug? People who are going to 'do drugs' will usually try weed first because it's the easiest to obtain, and relatively risk and hassle free. That doesn't mean that later, when they get whatever else they want to try, that it's the pot that made them do it. The whole 'gateway drug' argument is complete fiction.

 

95% of crack addicts tried caffeine first - incarcerate all coffee and cola sellers now! Think of the children!!!

[Synlubes]

I do have to say these 5 years have been the safest years of my life since i don't have to worry about going to jail over a plant and not have to worry about hurting someone from it's effects.

 

Now all you have to worry about is all the others that could hurt you or members of your family.

 

As for alcohol, TAX THE HELL OUT OF IT ! ! !

 

I`m more concerned about a drunk driver than I am someone driving with a pot buzz.

 

As for the harder drugs, that`s another story.

[BLKMGK]

Sorry, I'm against it. Call me old or whatever but I saw what it did to MY family. Father was into dope and getting high, I was a toddler and I STILL remember the parties he would have when my mother wasn't around. Eventually he moved into other drugs and my mother moved on too. My Dad still smokes some but that's mostly to ease the pain of cancer, he's probably hooked on moriphine now though actually. Overall I cannot be sure that drugs really "hurt" him but he never had any ambition, never tried to do anything challenging. He spent his time in jobs that let him just get by, just like more than a couple of potheads I knew in school. But hey, it's harmless right?

 

Alcohol, I'm not too thrilled about that either to be honest. My mother died from it but not before she pretty much killed my invalid step-father, the state took custody when they figured out she was drunk 99% of the time and couldn't help him. I was long gone by this time mind you, when my mother lost her job due to drinking I had just managed to get out of the house. That wasn't before she had pretty much ruined Christmas for me - ever tried to open gifts at midnight with someone who's so drunk they can't walk? Wonderful memories guys oh and rehab didn't help either so don't go there. I don't know if alcoholism is a disease or an addiction but it DOES run in families like mine. Perhaps it's just addictive personalities that get caught up in this crap but if that's so then pot is just as bad for those kinds of people then isn't it?

 

Call me a square but I don't smoke anything, don't like the stench of cigs, and I drink in bare moderation. Boring huh? Well by being clean I've been able to get an interesting job that requires that I be clean and trustworthy. Blaze away guys if that's what you want but if you think this crap isn't harmful you're deluding yourself. My experience is that drugs in many forms aren't good for the public well being and given a chance I'll vote them down.....

 

Sorry, but this crap of "it's all lies, it's not harmful" with two fingers firmly planted in one's ears hits a nerve. BTW - alcohol is ALSO a depressant, I'm surprised that wasnh't brought up in your school as it was in mine. Last I heard there were still quite a few chemicals in pot who's effects they still weren't sure of so. I love it when people claim it's from nature and is okay too - just like tobacco right?

[Moridin]

Actually tobacco wouldn't be so harmful if it didn't have all the extra chemicals and crap that the cig companies put in them. I've seen what the "grass" does to people. Not good. Harmless on the off occassion, but when addictive personalities get a hold of it, stuff turns to crap.

While were on the subject of drugs, don't forget to mention over the counter stuff. I personally don't trust anyone using Sudafed to drive.

Legalize it and tax the hell out of it. I think they should do this with cigs and alcohol too. Make money off of people's extra activities.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'd say psychological addictions are real. Look at all the posts on this website that have nothing to do with Dastun/Nissan.

 

And what do these topics on grass have to do with modifiying cars???

 

Sounds like my high school debate team rather than a automotive forum.

 

And hemp cannot be smoked

 

And get spell check. Remember "i before e accept after c"

[Guest polarity]

I normally won't respond to topics like this because my views are generally a bit far off and not really accepted. Here goes my $0.02 anyway.

 

First off I think that anyone who wants to smoke pot (or do any other drug) will do it, legal or not. Next I think that the gateway drug argument is just as stated before, a crock.

 

Personally I say legalize it. Tax it. Make money off it to pay for whatever it is we need to pay for. One of the big problems I do see with legalizing it is, what do you do with everyone who has been arrested for drugs? Do they now get to go free? You can't just change the rules and tell everyone else you should have waited a year.

 

I feel that we should have designated areas, maybe clinics. "You want to try acid, ok go to waiting room 3 and pay $60." Bottom line is people are going to try drugs. I have, and most likely will in the future. I do not do any drug on a regular basis, nor have I done any drug more than twice. I try them because I am curious of effects. I will not try things such as heroin (that can cause a real addiction) but I will try the lesser drugs (if there is such a thing, weed, extacy, etc) mostly for the experience. I have not had any bad experiences with drugs, no family problems or anything. I have led a normal life. My parents drank (but were not drunks) my step father smoked pot (but was not a unambitious(is that a word) person. He had a job that he kept up and provided for the family)

 

I think the effect a drug has on someone is decided by that person. I have more or less jumbled up alot of topics into a brief unorganized mess, but hopefully you got my points.

 

Billy

[Pop N Wood]

A very timely article in todays newspapers:

 

http://www.theantidrug.com/marijuana/openletter.html

 

But I suppose the message will be lost on those who choose not to hear it.

[Guest subdermal]

A very timely article in todays newspapers:

 

http://www.theantidrug.com/marijuana/openletter.html

 

But I suppose the message will be lost on those who choose not to hear it.

 

Yes' date=' marijuana or any drug including alcohol can impair your decision making skills. Is marijuana worse for that than alcohol? I have no clinical proof, but at least I've never slept with an ugly girl because I was high on pot at the time Decriminalization does _not_ mean, by the way, that it would be legal to drive while on it. Impairment is impairement, regardless of the cause.

 

From what I can see, nobody here has said that marijuana is harmless - that would be ridiculous. Like any drug, it has its dangers. Like any drug, it has certain social costs associated with it. The point I believe most people on the pro-decriminalization side are trying to make is that it's not _worse_ than alcohol, which is a legal drug. Why should there be this discrimination? Not to mention that there is also a huge social cost associated with keeping it illegal - prisons, cops, etc are not cheap.

 

There is a whole political history behind why pot is illegal, and you'd be surprised how little it has to do with concerns over safety and health. The largest financial supporters of the anti-pot lobby were companies involved in the conversion of trees to paper (hemp was an economic threat) and tobacco/pharmaceutical companies. Any guesses why?

 

And get spell check. Remember "i before e accept[/b'] after c"

Haha I'm usually not one to pick on people for grammar, but that was funny... sorry CajunZman, but that was too good to resist.

[Pop N Wood]

subdermal

 

You obviously did not read the whole thread:

 

hurricane2k1@hotmail.com wrote:

 

It is my personal belief that it is mostly harmless and that there are far worse things that one can do to themselves

 

I think that if one is emotionally stable and uses good judgement, there is no detriment in smoking pot.

 

Sounds like some people want us to believe it is harmless.

 

 

 

You also missed some of my previous statements:

 

10 Arguing "marijuana is less of an evil than (fill in the blank)" is like arguing "syphilis is less evil than AIDS". Who cares? I don't have a use for either. See #4 above.

 

4 Who needs it? Why should we care?

 

A message to decriminalize marijuana might be much more appealing to the mass of people in this country.

 

 

You aren't arguing the right thread. The original supposition was legalizing it. I am the one that brought up decriminalization.

 

Unfortunately, marijuana will not be legalized unless someone can convince the majority of the people in this country that it is in their best interest to do so. I merely tried to point out a few hard realities that any legalization effort will have to address. Trying to say it "isn't as bad as alcohol" is a self defeating approach given the high cost of alcohol in our society.

 

Some of the arguments stated in this thread are unfounded. People have a way of only seeing what they want to see. For example, take the options in the original poll: Why is it so unconceivable that someone who has used marijuana in the past could only want to legalize it? I guess the guy who wrote the poll doesn't realize there might be more than a few former addicts that see no benefit in legalizing it?

 

And just what are the benefits?

 

Something like 20% of federal prision imates are incarcerated for marijuana related offenses only.

 

I cry bullshit. Cite a reference. In many states possession of a small amount of marijuana is only a civil fine, similar to a littering or jaywalking ticket. If you get caught doing a Nate Newton then I have no sympathy for you. Old Nate had to have known the potential cost when he got started.

 

The economical benefits of hemp are worth it alone.

 

Guess what? It is already legal to grow hemp in the US. No change in the laws are necessary.

 

The government is well aware of the uses of hemp. Why do you think there is so much marijuana growing wild in the Midwest? The government planted it back in the 40’s to ensure a supply of rope after the Philippines fell to the Japanese (and we lost our major supply of manilla).

 

The psychological effects of marijuana promote cooperation, tranquility and empathy.

 

Not true. See the link I posted earlier.

 

that marijuana smoke is significantly less toxic and has no added chemicals(such as ciggarettes) .

 

Also not true. See the earlier link.

 

The taxpayers have to foot the bill now for the drug wars.

 

Yes, we do. And unless you also want to legalize crack, heroin and human slavery, then legalizing marijuana will not reduce the cost any. We will still have to patrol our borders. This is a non-issue, especially in this post September 11th world. And legalizing it would lead to additional expenses to try and regulate it. That leads us to:

 

Why not let the tax revinue generated from legal pot pay to enforce and regulate it?

 

The one argument that makes sense. Create another stupid tax, just like lotteries, cigarettes and slot machines. However you have to look at the full cost. In my opinion the added tax revenues will not offset the increased cost of social services to mitigate the effects. Know what else? I don’t mind paying taxes as long as they are not wasted. I like living in a free country with nice roads, clean water and good schools. But that is just my opinion.

 

 

I personally think it should be legal, extremely regulated, and taxed beyond belief.

1)You MUST be 21 to buy or possess it.

2)It should only be sold in state liquor stores.

3)the penalties for selling UNTAXED pot should be the same as selling untaxed alchohol(people are much more afraid of the IRS than the DEA)

4)By the time it is taxed, the price per oz, should be the same or higher than it is now.

5)DUI offenses should carry mandatory jail time,and a 3 strikes clause.

 

This particular logic thread just doesn’t add up. Lets see…. Pot is already completely illegal, yet it’s use is rampant among people under 21. So if we just legalize it, make it openly available, but then create a new law making it illegal for people under 21 to possess or buy it…….

 

What? What am I missing here?

 

And #4 won’t work because the stuff is too easy to grow. And the major problem with #5 is you can’t enforce “under the influence of marijuana” laws the same way you can alcohol because there is no equivalent of a breath test. Piss tests will ring positive if you smoke a day or two before. Too imprecise for “under the influence”. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

and why do we need to outlaw everything?

 

This is also something I think about. I don’t believe in seat belt laws, mandatory air bags or motorcycle helmet laws for the same reason. Hell, I am a card carrying member of the NRA! However, society has a right to protect itself and in situations like this you have to weigh what might be gained over what might be lost. And, in my insignificant opinion, I see marijuana laws as a minor infringement upon personal liberties. Especially in light of the alternative.

[spotfitz]

As someone else has mentioned, there were some additional choices for this poll that I feel are required.

"Once used and doesn't support legalization."

I would have prefered to have this as an option over my other 2 choices, being I've smoked before.

I for one can go along with alot of what is being said concerning this topic, including the rediculous notion that it would generate revenue for the gov.

As for it being a passive drug, I literally don't remember 3 1/2 years of my life, straight out of highschool. Thats a good example of being passive, considering during that 3 1/2 years I didn't do anything with my life except smoke pot or look to score more pot.

On to the subject of it being a window drug. Yes and no. Do to the fact that most places you can get pot can also get you about anything else you want, the availability is there, it bowls down to the person. I ended up trying many other drugs that I don't think I would have ever tried if the availability wasn't there. Looking back on what experience I have of the subject, I don't see me ever doing any of the drugs again, that I once tried. Not one of them contributes to life, except diluting reality. Not one of them can be beneficial health wise. And not one of them can help you make proper decisions while under their influence. And due to short memory loss, I may have replied to this post before and have forgotten

I can totally relate to something in the article presented. Anxiety can be directly related to being paranoid. I quit smoking pot mainly do to a heart pulpatation(sp?) that I started encountering while being high, which led to anxiety of my health. Whether it was being paranoid that caused it to start, I don't know. It could be I had heart problems before. It seemed like a good idea at the time to eliminate pot out of the equation. I haven't had a problem with it since. For someone alittle more "laid back" then myself this may not be a problem. This again brings up everyone acts and reacts differently to given situations.

Everyone has their own "drug" of choice. For some it's pot. Others it's work. And some may consider our Zcar's a drug. Unfortunately, some of the legal drugs can be more destructive then most illegal ones. It all comes down to the individuals responsiblity for their own actions.

Whether pot should be legalized will always come down to if it can be made profitable. And being how easy it is to grow, I don't see that happening.

[Pop N Wood]

"Columbus's sails, Christ's sandals and Betsy Ross's flag were all made from hemp," Bowles said. "Henry Ford's first car used hemp oil.

 

Briskin said the word "canvas" is actually a mispronunciation of cannabis.

"

 

 

http://www.dailyillini.com/sept00/sept15/news/news03.shtml

 

My bad. I guess technically hemp is legal to grow in the US by permit, but the US government has not approved such a permit in over 60 years. Good to know Illinois has better growing conditions than Hawaii.

[Guest subdermal]

subdermal

 

You obviously did not read the whole thread:

I did' date=' but I didn't memorize it. I was responding based on my memories of the general tone of what I had read largely the day before. I admit that I may have been more likely to remember those posts that I agreed with in principle. Point granted.

 

10 Arguing "marijuana is less of an evil than (fill in the blank)" is like arguing "syphilis is less evil than AIDS". Who cares? I don't have a use for either.

That's not even a fair analogy. While popular rhetoric may talk about drug usage as a disease, it is clearly not. We could argue about whether addiction is a disease, but that would be off-topic as we are discussing usage not addiction. The point of the 'less harmful' argument, for me anyways, is that there is no logical reason to outlaw one vice but profit from another. To follow your analogy, current drug laws are the equivalent of promoting syphilis research but slipping HIV into the weater supply.

 

4 Who needs it? Why should we care?

 

But obviously people do care. Who needs a Z car? Does that mean we should all go to jail?

 

The psychological effects of marijuana promote cooperation, tranquility and empathy.

 

Not true. See the link I posted earlier.

Yes, but for every link supporting your case that you can post, another can be posted that argues against it. There are billions of dollars at stake here, and scientific souding results are easily bought. There has been enough research done that shows that marijuana is not as evil as previously thought, that I am willing to accept that possibility. Are you?

 

that marijuana smoke is significantly less toxic and has no added chemicals(such as ciggarettes) .

 

Also not true. See the earlier link.

Are you arguing about "less toxic", about "no added chemicals", or both? If you think Joe Dealer is adding all the crap to his weed that any tobacco company adds to their cigarettes, I would be interested to find out why. The added chemicals alone in cigarettes are probably worse for you than marijuana.

 

The taxpayers have to foot the bill now for the drug wars.

 

Yes, we do. And unless you also want to legalize crack, heroin and human slavery, then legalizing marijuana will not reduce the cost any.

The difference is that the money spent finding and prosecuting marijuana users is not accomplishing any provable good.

 

I personally think it should be legal, extremely regulated, and taxed beyond belief.

1)You MUST be 21 to buy or possess it.

2)It should only be sold in state liquor stores.

3)the penalties for selling UNTAXED pot should be the same as selling untaxed alchohol(people are much more afraid of the IRS than the DEA)

4)By the time it is taxed, the price per oz, should be the same or higher than it is now.

5)DUI offenses should carry mandatory jail time,and a 3 strikes clause.

 

This particular logic thread just doesn’t add up. Lets see…. Pot is already completely illegal, yet it’s use is rampant among people under 21. So if we just legalize it, make it openly available, but then create a new law making it illegal for people under 21 to possess or buy it…….

Agreed in principle, although not in practise. People under 21 drink too, but alcohol sellers have a vested interest in not selling to them. Right now, dealers will sell to anyone, because the risk is the same. However, if you could sell a quarter for X dollars completely legally to an adult, or sell it for possibly a bit more to a juvenile and risk prison, don't you think you'd stick with the safer route?

 

 

And #4 won’t work because the stuff is too easy to grow.

Agreed - it won't work if the tax is so steep that black market selling is still worth the risk.

 

And the major problem with #5 is you can’t enforce “under the influence of marijuana†laws the same way you can alcohol because there is no equivalent of a breath test. Piss tests will ring positive if you smoke a day or two before. Too imprecise for “under the influenceâ€. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Not wrong yet, but it is being worked on: http://www.vv.se/traf_sak/t2000/224.pdf

 

 

and why do we need to outlaw everything?

 

This is also something I think about. I don’t believe in seat belt laws, mandatory air bags or motorcycle helmet laws for the same reason. Hell, I am a card carrying member of the NRA!

 

Just to clarify - you're in favor of people running around with tools of murder, but you're against people getting high and watching cartoons? Yes the question was deliberately slanted, but can you at least see my point?

 

 

And, in my insignificant opinion, I see marijuana laws as a minor infringement upon personal liberties.

Right - because you don't smoke pot, so you don't ahve to worry about it. "and when they came for the potsmokers, I said nothing, because I wasn't one of them....and when they finally came for me, nobody said anything because there was no one left"

[Moridin]

that marijuana smoke is significantly less toxic and has no added chemicals(such as ciggarettes) .

 

Also not true. See the earlier link.

 

The larger amount of tar in marijuana is true. The difference between that and cigarettes, is the later is used many more times a day. The tar isn't necesarily primary cancer causing agent in cigarettes, the chemicals and other crap are. To ofset the tar, one can vaporize by use of a heat gun. Very little to no tar is taken in when using this technique.

 

The taxpayers have to foot the bill now for the drug wars.

 

Yes, we do. And unless you also want to legalize crack, heroin and human slavery, then legalizing marijuana will not reduce the cost any. We will still have to patrol our borders. This is a non-issue, especially in this post September 11th world. And legalizing it would lead to additional expenses to try and regulate it.

 

I disagree. Cut down on the millions of dollars going into advertising trying to make marijauna out to be the worst thing on earth and put this back into schools. The drug wars, were not really a war on drugs. It was a war on poor people trying to get by in other countries. Don't give me the "if you work hard, you can do anything." This may be true here, but not in many other countries. If you had the choice to sell drugs and feed your kids, or let them die, what would you do? (Sorry for going a little off topic)

 

Why not let the tax revinue generated from legal pot pay to enforce and regulate it?

 

The one argument that makes sense. Create another stupid tax, just like lotteries, cigarettes and slot machines. However you have to look at the full cost. In my opinion the added tax revenues will not offset the increased cost of social services to mitigate the effects. Know what else? I don’t mind paying taxes as long as they are not wasted. I like living in a free country with nice roads, clean water and good schools. But that is just my opinion.

 

Nice roads? Clean water? Good schools? Not anywhere around here. You must live in a dream world. It is much better here than many other countries, but I wouldn't say truely humane. Check out the Mississippi. G.E. dumps tons of crap into the river every day. You will never see this on the news, because I believe they own NBC. Good schools? Not in California. The colleges are excellent, but the high school's are crap. I know people that graduated that could barely spell properly (I'm probably included in this one), write a coherent sentence, or even do a basic algebra problem.

 

 

and why do we need to outlaw everything?

 

This is also something I think about. I don’t believe in seat belt laws, mandatory air bags or motorcycle helmet laws for the same reason. Hell, I am a card carrying member of the NRA! However, society has a right to protect itself and in situations like this you have to weigh what might be gained over what might be lost. And, in my insignificant opinion, I see marijuana laws as a minor infringement upon personal liberties. Especially in light of the alternative.

 

No seat belts, mandatory air bags, or motorcycle helmets would cost you more money. The medical bills alone would drive insurance through the roof. Think of how much more serious injuries in auto accidents would be. I go back to the kids thing on this. If had the choice of your kid living because an air bag was in the car or them dying, because it wasn't mandatory for the manufacturer to put it there, what would you say then? As for the protecting yourself. You should have a right, but you must look at what is truely scary. What do you need a gun to protect you from? I suggest you rent a movie called "Bowling for Columbine" when it becomes available. I'm more affraid of the Enron's and other companies stealing money. Michael Moore made a joke on Oprah. He posed the question "What is the first type of person you think of that will harm you. The consensus was some black guy with a gun. He said, he couldn't think of one black person that ever did harm to him. All the bad things in his life were the result of white people. Come to think of it, the same thing holds true for me too. Sorry to bring this up, but I believe its all important.

 

Again, sorry to get off topic (which was never really automotive to begin with, but these things make great discussions. I think you should take any chance you can get to put these issues out in the open, even you do manage to go off on a few tangents), but I believe this was important. We live in a capitalist society. Captilize on this huge market that marijuana provides. Hemp would also be great for the economy. Legalize marijuana and you make Hemp much more available. Lets not also forget the medical benefits of the drug. I know very few of these, but I will be able to supply much more info in the on coming days.

Sorry to nag on you so much here Jim, but for some research try to go outside of the America. Independent research facilities that aren't influenced by an anti-marijuana govt. may hold much more weight and won't focus so much on the tar part. I'll try and find some.