staggered mount small flywheel starter?

[Guest Phil1934]

I finished putting accessories on my engine at the machine shop until I got to the starter. It's a 350 block but only has large flywheel pattern. Anyone know of a GM starter that will work? I ran into this before with a 400 and I drilled and tapped another hole but there must be an easier way. Since it's going into a T5 a small snout would be nice, too. Maybe an old cast iron snout?

[Mike C]

I have never seen a block that ONLY had the staggard bolt pattern. I am pretty sure the 168 tooth flywheel will not work in the GM T5 bellhousing, only the 153. If you MUST use the staggard bolt starter, the GM permanent magnet motored starter is a good choice. The Nippondenso motored CVR starter (similar to 88 Corvette and some others) is available from Powermaster with staggard bolt pattern, but once again, only for 168 tooth flywhell. Your best bet may be to get a Lakewood or McLeod scattershield that will accomodate the larger flywheel, but if memory serves, with the JTR installation, the big flywheel and starter have clearance issues?

 

I have two of the CVR Nippondenso style starters, one on each of my trucks. Both are large flywheel, but the CVR starter has two sets of straight across bolt holes that work with either flywheel. The non-supported nose is the only way to use a block mount starter on my SM465 4 speeds cast iron bellhousing that originally had a bellhousing mount starter.

 

Here are some pics of the GM starters, in several itierations and one of it exploded: In the first pic, the left two are for the 168 tooth flywheel. They are two different designs, I like the one on the far left the best. The second from the right is for a 168 flywheel from a 4 cylinder. The far right is the small flywheel. All of these starters are from boats. The top starter in the exploded photo is the same as the far left in first photo. It is from a 96 LT1. The bottom starter is identical, but once again from a boat. The brush assembly has a 1 1/16 socket stuck in it to keep the spring loaded brushes in their holders. I learned the hard way how difficult it was getting them all held in to their sockets simulateneously...

 

The CVR starter is $150 while Powermaster has either 168/153 GM starters for $199. GM performance parts has the 168 tooth starter rebuilt for $129 or the 153 new for $175~.

 

 

[Guest Phil1934]

Thanks for a thoughtful response. I was rather shocked myself to not find the other hole in a 350 as I was bolting up my starter. I knew this was the case with 400 blocks as I drilled and tapped one of those for a small wheel starter. My local speed shop says Powermaster 9202 will work, though.

[Guest Phil1934]

I checked with Powermaster and they say no. It's nice to have internet as parts dealers seem to have lost the ability to read catalogs. Anyway looks like drill and tap.

[Mike C]

I would get an old starter to use as a drill alignment fixture. You can put one bolt in, and make sure the starter drive is perpendicular to the face, then go ahead and drill to appropriate size.

[Michael]

I'm in a similar situation. My block (Mark IV 454) is drilled only for the offset-mount starter. I have the 168-tooth flywheel, and a Lakewood bellhousing.

 

The stock full-size GM starter fits the flywheel and bellhousing, and even clears the headers, but the spacing between the headers and starter is awfully close (heat soak problems, etc.). I was considering an aftermarket starter with adjustable mounting block, so that the starter housing could be rotated to find the optimum position. The extra torque of an aftermarket starter would also be welcome.

 

The Powermaster 9526 ($220 at Summit) fits, but it's doesn't have an adjustable mount, and looks pretty wimpy. Summit's house brand, "Nippondenso style", PN 820323-OS, is similarly priced, and apparently has more torque. Best (and most expensive) is a CSI starter, 100PSBP. (all of this stuff is on page 98 of the Nov-Dec 2003 Summit catelog).

 

Anyway, I have two questions:

 

(1) roughly speaking, how much torque would a 9.5:1 CR 454 need on a mild day; that is, is ~200 ft-lb enough?

 

(2) do folks have any particular input, pro or con, about the Summit house-brand starters?

[Mike C]

I would not be surprised if the Summit starters were made by Powermaster. They seem to be a featured manufacture to some extent. Summits house brands are manufactured by major companies usually. I'm not sure if BBC ever came with the small flywheel. Obviously, with the small 'wheel you would need more torque. I would guess any of the gear reduction starters are more powerful than GMs old style starters. I would not be hesitant to use a Summit brand starter.

[Guest lcdearman]

I ran into the same thing on my son's '81 Camaro. We did a V6 to V8 swap on it, but kept the 153 tooth flywheel. Truck blocks were only drilled for the 168 tooth flywheel. I used the starter with a brass tube inserted in the bolt hole as a drill guide, and it has worked out just fine.