spork Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I've got an 83 280zxt that I recently changed out my headgasket and swapped a T3/T04E into. I'm using the stock .63 exhaust housing with wheel, and I'm using a 57 trim wheel on the compressor side w/ stage one wheels. My problem is that it seems like my powerband has moved up in the rpm range beyond much useability. I don't get full boost till bout 4000 rpm (20psi) and then my car pulls hard past 6500rpm. Well, I was thinking that 6500 is getting way to far up there for a motor w/ stock internals. Am I wrong. When I shift my car seems to lag a little while before boost picks back up, and I think my car was actually faster with the stock t3 pushing 20psi (I'll know next friday when I go to the track). I even had done whats known as a "quick spool option" done to my turbo. For those that don't know what this is, they remove weight off the rotating assembly in every area possible (that doesn't effect strength) to allow it to "spool quicker" similar to how a lighter flywheel helps the car rev quicker. If anyone can help me to straighten my car out, please feel free to offer suggestions. Hell, even if it means I picked the wrong turbo, I wanna know whats going on. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 57 trim wheel sucks. sorry. but that's your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 From what I've heard the E series wheels are hard to drive with a stock turbine. For street, perhaps the stage 3 turbine would be a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 From what I've heard the E series wheels are hard to drive with a stock turbine. For street, perhaps the stage 3 turbine would be a better choice. Its not the T04E..thats fine, its the wheel he put on it..57 trim is inefficent as HELL, I mean BEYOND crappy. no offense bud but its a really bad wheel..you should get a refund and go with something like this: T3/T04E 360 degree Heavy duty Thrust Bearing Turbine: .82 AR Stage III or higher wheel Compressor: 50 Trim T04E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 I should've stuck to my guns...but I knew very little about turbo compressor maps and such so I relied on the place that built it for me to help me in my decision. Is there anything short of pulling the turbo and swapping wheels that I can do to help reduce my problem? James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 not really considering its a turbo motor and your problem is the turbo..= good luck, and hybridz is here to help you when you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 well, if possible I'd like to be able to keep the stock exhaust housing so I can keep my internal wastegate and down pipe setup w/out changing flanges. Would a 50 trim on the compressor side still with stage one exhaust wheel, help me out? Or do I really nee to get away from the stage 1 wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Well, I stand by what I said. I don't think the efficiency of the wheel has anything to do with the boost threshold, or how fast it spools. The E series compressors are large and need a good flowing turbine to be driven properly, so I'd drop the stock turbine if you want to run a TO4E wheel. If you think the 57 is a pig, the 50 will be just as bad or worse, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Your problem is related to your small turbine wheel. There should not be more then about a 15 percent difference in the size of your turbine to compressor wheels, and I am going to bet money that you are beyond that. Switching to the stage II or III turbine would help alot. My stage III with a H3 and the same housing you have spooled up and was at full boost by 2800. My stage V turbine with 60 trim T04E is full boost buy about 3200, but it starts making boost every bit as low as the stage III. The 57 trim wheel is not the best one out there, but it still moves some air, and a 50 or 60 trim are also good. There is probably not more then about 30 hp between the 3 wheels. I would replace the turbine wheel and I am certain you will find you are going to be happy. Just my .02 Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I would also stick with the .63 housing. .82 is not going to spool like you want. Make it my .04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 spork, If you look at the T04E 50 trim versus the 57 trim you will see that the 50 has a much larger peak efficiency island. I personally run a 50 trim compressor with a stage V turbine wheel. The turbine housing is a .63 AR. This setup spools quicker than my stock 1983 280ZXT. I would definately stay with a .63 turbine housing. In my opinion you have three compressor options when building a hybrid turbo for a Z. T04E 50 trim (400HP) or T04E 60 trim (450HP) or T04B 60-1 (450+HP). The turbine side should stay a .63 with a stage 3 or 5 wheel until you want to go past 450HP. I can't speak to the real world feel of a 57 trim. I only know that some very experienced people who know turbos and Z's typically don't run the 57. Just my .02C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 spork' date=' If you look at the T04E 50 trim versus the 57 trim you will see that the 50 has a much larger peak efficiency island. I personally run a 50 trim compressor with a stage V turbine wheel. The turbine housing is a .63 AR. This setup spools quicker than my stock 1983 280ZXT. I would definately stay with a .63 turbine housing. In my opinion you have three compressor options when building a hybrid turbo for a Z. T04E 50 trim (400HP) or T04E 60 trim (450HP) or T04B 60-1 (450+HP). The turbine side should stay a .63 with a stage 3 or 5 wheel until you want to go past 450HP. I can't speak to the real world feel of a 57 trim. I only know that some very experienced people who know turbos and Z's typically don't run the 57. Just my .02C.[/quote'] The 57 trim wheel i've driven was in a hybrid MR2 with a CT26/57 combo..boost was sluggish and it felt like it was jsut a REALLY richly tuned stock car...bogged down and all. Personally I like .82 - albiet you lose some spool, but the overall larger size at higher levels keeps effciency up IMHO. T04E/50 with a stageV wheel will be your best bet, either A/R would be fine (.63 or .82) depending on what you want to use the car for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Well JeffP tested this turbo, and at 22psi of boost it had 23 psi of back pressure, with a .63 and a stage V, so the .82 is probably not needed. The 57 trim also flows enough air to make plenty of power, don't confuse efficiency with airflow. Efficiency does not have as much to do with the power production as airflow does. IMO. As long as he is over 55 to 60% efficiency, he should be ok. The cheapest way to fix his dilemma is to send the turbo out for a stage III turbine wheel upgrade. If you factor in a new wheel and remachining the compressor housing to, it is going to cost as much as just buying a new turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I looked up the maps, the 57 trim flows 2 pounds per minute more then the 50 trim. Where I see the 50 trim as better would be at higher pressure ratio's on smaller displacement engines. That would explain why it did not run well on an MR2, it was probably hitting the surge area. On the Z engine, that should not be as big a deal, and the map looks alot like a V trim or H3 trim T04B wheel, and those are both nice wheels for a Z motor. Not the end all be all, but nice sized motors. I am telling you, I bet there is not 20 hp difference between the 50 to 57 to 60 trim. 25 at best. DSM Motorsports says the 60 trim only supports about 25 more hp on a DSM then a 50 trim. 57 is in the middle if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I think 50 suppose to flow more than 57. I always thought that was wierd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toki Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Ok, I have been looking around for a while and honestly can't find a definition of what the trim is? Is it the size of the blade basically? I understand that the smaller the trim generally the lower the spool time but thats about it.. I'm sorry for the newb question but I just havn't been able to find an answer, and would a 50 trim .63 A/E T3/T04E be a suitable choice for the L28 for a daily driver looking to get around 350 at the wheels you think? A quik spool is essential I am new to this car so I dont know what kind of turbos are popular and have been tested and all that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I believe trim is the inducer divided by exducer, or vice versa. It is really a ratio of the difference between the two. Generally the higher the trim, the bigger the wheel, but it can be misleading if you don't know what class of wheel you are talking about. The 50 trim is fine for what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Saying the 57 is total crap, is unjustified. The 57 takes a smidge longer to spool than the 50 due to increased moment of inertia because of the larger diameter. A 60 will take just a touch longer. If you had gone through calculating the load points for the L28 you will find that the 57 trim is more suited for L28 larger dispalcement motor. Using a 4400rpm point, the airflow lands directly in the center of the flow island on the compressor map at 15psi. The limitation is about 19psi before effeciency takes a nose dive. There is not a huge diffence between a 50 and a 57mm or 60mm for that matter. But the 57mm is a wonderful comprimise for a street car. While the size of compressor wheel does have some effect on spoolup, it is mainly the configuration of the turbine that determines spoolup time The manufacturer went too big with the turbine size, giving you poor spoolup. Simply swap for a stage III, you .63 a/r is good. BTW I have a T04e/T3 with a 57mm wheel with stage III turbine .63 a/r and have no complaints about lag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I'm spooling 60-1 with stage III wheel on 2.6L so I don't think 50, 57, or 60 shoudn't be a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 yo2001, Are you using a T04B or E compressor housing with the 60-1 wheel? What AR? Also, are you using a .63 AR turbine housing? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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