TomoHawk Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Can somebody suggest a fire extinguisher that's not real flashy, or doesn't look like it belongs in the kitchen? What kind of an A B C rating should it have for auto use. Where is a good place to look for one? Autozone? No Pep Boys in my area. I plan on mounting it between the seats where the console used to be, on a plate held by the 3 screws that held down the console. thx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z8 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Try racer wholesale they have a selection of standalone and plumbed in systems. And they look racey, not ricer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 I looked at racerwholesale.com, and they only had a 10 Lb bottle. Looks like too much for a cruise car. I also found fireAde 200 had a good one. Maybe I'll check Home depot and a couple auto parts stores first. [/url][/u] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 The fire bottle is in the car to do one job ! And it isn`t to look cool or to fit in a nice little spot in your car ! It needs to be mounted where YOU can get to it ! FAST I have the $30.00 bottle that racer wholesale sells and it is just right. Don`t buy a cheap one with plastic trigger and strap ! And when you do get one, check it regularly for charge ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRJoe Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 A Halon extinguisher is probably the best for a car. You can find them all over the place, even Lowes and Home Depot. Halon is good for all types of fire and leaves no residue. Dry powder extinguisher would be the next choice, but if you need to use it get ready for a major clean up. Also get the largest you can fit, think of it like horsepower, you can never have too much. - Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 In reply to Doug's comment, My car isn't used for racing. It's just a plain car, and I don't see any reason to use a fire bottle big enough to put out forest fires. It should fit conveniently where I want it and shouldn't look like it came from a nuclear power facility. Nor should it advertise that you think your car is such a fire hazard that you really need a fire extinguisher. Would you put a 20 Lb. bottle in your Crown Vic or SUV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 VRJoe speaks the truth, go halogen!!! I had to use fire extinguishers TWICE last year on my Z - once in an interior fire and one for an engine fire :malebitchslap: :malebitchslap: , both times I didn't have halogen, and what a HUGE MESS!! A halogen will solve your problems and get you back on the road a lot faster, without having to swab the decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS1370 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Halon not Halogen, unless you want to see in the dark and not put out a fire. The A rating means the extinguisher puts out fire such as paper. The B is for flammable liquids The C is for electrical fires. Most car fires are going to be either flammable liquids (type or electrical (type c). You want an extinguisher with a high number before the B C rating. Halon is good so is CO2, less mess to clean up. Dry Chem works well but it makes a hell of a mess and is very abrasive. As someone above said bigger is better. Don't worry about how it looks, worry about having enough extinguisher to put out the fire. If you have a serious gasoline fire the little 5 pounders may not have enough umpf to put out the fire. Then you get to watch your car burn to the ground before the fire dept get there to put it out. Whatever extinguisher you choose make sure you know how to use it. If you use a Halon or CO2 extinguisher keep hosing down the fire area even after it looks as if the fire is out. Whatever you do make sure you have a bracket that secures the fire extinguisher properly. The plastic one that come with the cheap extinguishers are no good for vehicles. In an accident the extinguisher could come loose and bounce around the inside of the car. Having something that weighs as much as a bowling ball bouncing around loose is not my idea of fun. And don't mount the extinguiser on the roll bar behind your head. Hit another car at 60 and that extinguisher may be hitting you in the back of the head at 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest silverbullet Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I have never heard of Halon, what is it and how does it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Halon is good for all types of fire and leaves no residue. Would like to second everything said above, but keep in mind that Halon is rated for electrical and liguid fires, but not type A fire such as paper and solid materials. So good for a car, but not your shop. The manufacture of Halon was banned in 1994 (like Freon it hurts the ozone). I am suprised Halon extinquishers are still so readily available. Dry chemical extinquishers do make a mess. The chemical is corrosive and will damage wiring if not cleaned up. Still, as a back up to a readily accesible bucket of water they are probably the safest and most cost effective solution for a workshop. Here is a good info page on Halon http://www.h3r.com/halon/faq.htm#q1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I was wondering when someone was going to mention Halon production had ceased. But that's in the US and other coutries that signed the Montreal Protocol. Other countries (Brazil, China, India) are producing more of it every year. According to this site: http://www.ushalonbank.com/halon7.html the Montreal Protocol allows for it's trade, and importing recycled halon is legal for the US. Price is an issue. AFFF is good for A and B fires. The Navy uses it on ships, subs as well I think. Racer wholesale sells systems with that as well. But I guess if it's an electrical fire, it's not going to help. I wonder what the percentage of auto fires are that are actually electrical and an A,B extinguishing agent wouldn't help. CF3I is a substitute for Halon that AFRL came up with for unocuppied spaces on the F-16, but I don't know if it's gone any further toward commercial use. This paper has some other substitutes listed, but I don't know how many of the complicated ones are available. Inergen is and seems to be good for electrical fires. http://ioe.engin.umich.edu/ioe539/halon.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Thanks, Pete. I knew halon wasn't meant to be breathed for more than the few moments it should take to get out, which is why they are using it in drag racing ( although they use face sheilds with a little air mask to escape.) I think I'll look into the FireAde system, it looks like something 'safe' to use. It's supposed to be everything you would want to use in your car. http://www.fireade.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Interesting. If you go the their brochure, it says: Class C Fires (Electrical): DO NOT APPLY TO ELECTRICAL FIRES http://www.ph7technology.com/FireAde2000USA-A4%20Brochure%20NEW.pdf Hmm.. But I guess most auto fires probably start as B. BTW, what class fire is it once it's plastics that are burning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 The reason I was interested was because on their website, they have a deal for (racers). I assume they mean automotive, and motorcycles would fit in with autos. About the electrical thing - I think they mean household electrical fires, which might cause electrocution by bridging the wires, or with something conductive, causing electrocution. I think automotive voltages aren't really considered "electrical." Maybe somebody has an official word on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS1370 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Tomo My understanding of the C rating is that it is the amount of non conducting extinguishing agent. As you mentioned probably not a problem for automotive electrical fires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRJoe Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 There are only three ways to put out a fire: 1) Remove the fuel 2) Remove the heat 3) Remove the air Halon works by removing the air. CO2 work by removing the heat. Fuel cut off works by removing the fuel. Dry powder work by seperating the fuel and air, thereby removing the air. Commonly it's refered to as 'the fire triangle'. Fuel on one side, air on another and heat on the third. Remove any one of the sides and the fire goes out. Blowing out a candle removes the heat. Putting a lid on a pan fire removes the air. Halon gained wide use for computer rooms back in the day of big computers and raised floors. It could put out a fire without damaging the computer. Very expensive to setup but far cheaper than water damage to a computer system and tape library. The claim was that you could breath it for 15 Min. while waiting for the fire to go out. This was later revised to 'Get the heck out if the Halon goes off' since a few people died from breathing Halon. As noted above Halon works by removing air (oxygen actually), shouldn't be a suprise that that trying to breath it for a while in a sealed room would kill you. Works great from an extinguisher. Hope that helps. - Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Batteries tend to explode if they get shorted. Good reason for a sealed battery box I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 From my experience as a chemist, it looks like their system is a kind of (water)-based thing with surfactants/soap instead of foam to remove air, emulsify conbustible liquids and rubbers. The water- part is Probably why it's not recommemded for (higher- voltage) situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yeah the foam reminds me of the intumescent stuff the guys at David Taylor Model Basin were working on years ago when I worked there. Get it hot and it expands to a nice insulating layer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Halon suppresses fires by "by chemically disrupting combustion", not by displacing oxygen. It acts as some sort of catalyst to prevent combustibles from reacting with oxygen. That is why places with a lot of electrical equipment switched from CO2 to Halon. CO2 displaces all of the oxygen to smother the fire whereas halon mixes with the air to prevent combustion, but still allowing people to breath. Trouble is Halon is a CFC just like dry cleaning fluid, so it is not desirable to breath. The Navy uses foam to suppress liquid fires since, if applied correctly, the foam will blanket the pool of flammable liquid preventing air from reaching it. If applied incorrectly the water used to create the foam will wash off the foam layer re exposing the flammable liquid. That is why foam is not really effective for a burning car unless you can build up enough foam to completely engulf the car. It also doesn’t work well for burning walls or ceilings. The really scary thing about the foam the Navy uses is it is derived from animal renderings. Rumor had it when released in the water the foam was as effective as chum for attracting sharks. I know, slow day at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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