Corzette Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Well guys one thing after another. I may have found out why my timing marks were so far off and still running. I am tuning my engine tonight and all of the sudden there was a loud sound that came from the engine...sorta sounded like someone dropping a bunch of change or something. Then the engine died. Would nt start up. Rockers were good and turned over but nothing. I tried to get the distributor out but it was stuck. I finally got it out and ALL the teeth on the drive gear are dust@!*&^%. I am sure my can gear is shot too. Damn...does anyone know what could cause this? I was running the MSD billet distributor Part#85551 with the Comp Cams 12-432-8 EX282 HR Retrofit. They told me it would work fine. Were they wrong? Theres something I read about a bronze gear etc...does this apply? I want MSD again so what do you guys recommend? Grumpy have you ever had this happen? What are your wise words of wisdom? I guess I have to tear it down underneath and put in new cam and distributor. Please advise! Damn Okinawa sucks!!!!lol. No support. CZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowboy6280 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Not certain, but if you have a roller cam (billit) you need the bronze gear on the distributor. If you dont the gears will end up chewing each other... anyway, this is what I have been told. And you will have to replace the bronze gear every so often, gear on the distributor will wear it down a bit. I would verify this, but this is what I have been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny411 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Does the shaft in the distributor still spin freely? If the bushings starved for oil, The shaft could have bound up and caused the teeth to sheer. You could also check the shaft to be sure that it is perfectly straight. It could cause it to bind at operating rpm if it is bent slightly. The worst part will be the cleanup. You will have to be VERY sure that you have all traces of the destroyed gear removed from the engine. Small pieces have a way of getting into the worst places. i would recomend cleaning the oil pump and pickup screen to be sure that none of this debris has worked its way in there. If some has, and your oil pump bypasses(maybe on cold startup when the oil is thickest) your problems will be much more serious. Good Luck finding the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 This is what I found... RETRO-FIT ROLLER CAMS... Install For those of you considering installing a "retro-fit" roller cam in your engine, be it a 302 or a 350... BE ADVISED... many cam manufacturers require the use of a "BRONZE DISTRIBUTOR GEAR" which in turn would require replacement of the gear frequently when used for everyday "street" use. S O M E cam manufacturers have already addressed this problem and are offering a retro-fit cam for these popular engines with an iron or steel gear that of course would NOT require frequent changing. Check with your manufacturer or call their tech line before making a purchase of a retro-fit cam to insure you are not buying a cam which would eventually lead to a high maintenance situation. Factory HR cams are made from a dedicated core that is the same material as a regular hydraulic cam. Comp Cams decided to use their readily available steel billet core, which has the appearance of a solid roller cam. This means you'll need to install a bronze distributor gear, which is no big deal. Two different inner diameter bronze gears are available, so measure your shaft diameter before ordering. This gear is mandantory for billet cams as billet steel will simply chew up a standard drive gear." From the net.....Man Im pissed. Summit told me this would work fine...don't listen to the summit guys...do your home work. Learn from my mistakes (and I have had many).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 read and take notes http://64.90.9.168/cranecams/pdf/257g.pdf http://64.90.9.168/cranecams/pdf/323e.pdf The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8 and 90° V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030 thats the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger groove with no problems deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using keep in mind the groove MUST be lined up with the cam gear when the distrib. is installed http://www.chevytalk.org/forums/Forum64/HTML/008887.html BTW I always stick four of these magnets in the corners of the oil pan sump , you will be amazed at how much metalic dust they pick out of the oil and keep from getting to your bearings,(either one works fine) http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet2.html http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet42.html these are NOT THE REFRIFERATOR MAGNETS YOU PLAYED WITH AS A KID!....ONE OF THESE CAN PICK UP A CYLINDER HEAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 hey guys, i have a similar question but on a different application, my friend has an 85 mustang with aftermarket heads and cam, the only problem is, we cannot find out any specs on the cam from the two previous owners. we are upgrading the ignition system to an msd probillet, if we dont know what cam is in there should we get a brone gear for the distributor just to be safe?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Thanks Grumpy. Im learning all the time. How hard is it change the shaft gear? My pin goes all the way through with holes on both sides (MSD Pro Billet) After I punch out the pin. do I need a press the get the gear off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 use a drift to drive out the roll pin holding the remains of the gear then a couple wacks with a plasitic mallet shold get the gear off easily. GET THOSE MAGNETS AND INSTALL THEM,YOUR ENGINE IS FULL OF METALLIC DUST,THE GEARS DID NOT DISOLVE THEY WERE TURNED INTO FINE METALLIC DUST THAT HOPEFULLY GOT MOSTLY TRAPPED IN YOUR FILTER BUT SOME IS WITHOUT ANY DOUBT LOOSE IN THE ENGINE ...INSTALL THE MAGNETS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 All of the gears I have changed just pulled off once the pin was removed. If my memory serves me correctly there is a dimple drilled in the gear that lines up with the contact on the rotor. Those magnets shure look like the ones out of a computer hard drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 does anyone have advice for me? if we arent sure what cam is in the mustang should we use the bronze gear just in case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Those magnets shure look like the ones out of a computer hard drive. they may be! "An excellent value for a surplus NdFeB magnet. These magnets are identical in shape to item #2, but larger in all dimensions. These are 0.155" thick(a little over 1/8"). One of these will easily pick up 50 pounds. Like most surplus hard drive magnets, these are magnetized through the thickness. Exactly half of the magnet is North, and half is South. These seem to be of reasonably high grade, probably MGOe35 or better. They are Nickel plated. but they lift 40 plus lbs each if they are the same ones! and they work great at trapping metallic dust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Grumpy thanks! I did already take your advice and put 4 magnets in my pan. Those damn things just about cut my finger in half trying to seperate them during install..lol. Should I drop my pan or just drain the oil and change filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I wonder how sticking one of the magnets to the outside of the pan would work? Would you still have enough magnetic force to catch metallic particles? Would it fall off? Duct tape to help secure it? Be nice to get the benefits and not have to drop the pan to install it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I wonder how sticking one of the magnets to the outside of the pan would work? THEY WORK ALMOST AS WELL,ON THE OOUTSIDE, THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT THEY CAN GET REMOVED FAR EASIER FROM THE OUTSIDE OF THE OIL PAN Would you still have enough magnetic force to catch metallic particles? HELL YES! Would it fall off? HIGHLY UNLIKELY,JUST TRY AND REMOVE ONE YOULL SEE WHY Duct tape to help secure it? NO! Be nice to get the benefits and not have to drop the pan to install it. PUT THEM ON THE PLACES ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE OIL PAN WHERE THEY ARE VERY UNLIKELY TO BE REMOVED ACCIDENTLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 There's a company producing a magnet wrap that goes around the oil filter and captures the metal particles in filter for easy disposal. I can't remember who makes though! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 So how about putting a couple three or more of the computer magnets on the outside of the oil filter? Then when the filter is changed the magnets can be swapped to the new filter. The computer magnets will NOT fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Thanks for the site grumpy; I've been looking for a source who sells magnets at a reasonable price...$2.50 for a Neodymium magnet that'll hold 50lbs ....too, too cheep! 8) Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Yeah those things are strong as hell...just dont them too close to the crank or may freeze up....lol! By the way I had to order my oil Filter PH5 from the states because they told me here in Okinawa that they dont make them...oh brother! I hate this place....no wonder everyone over here spends thousands on the blender engines...at least they can get what they want....thank goodness for the Turbo.... JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 There's a company producing a magnet wrap that goes around the oil filter and captures the metal particles in filter for easy disposal think about it carefully!....in order for a filter magnet to work the bits of broken metal MUST pass thru the oil pump, providing an EXCELLENT CHANCE for those bits of metallic crud to damage the oil pump impellers, jam the pressure relief valve and scar the gears, and get crushed between the gears,then AFTER they pass thru the oil pump theres a VERY GOOD CHANCE they will get routed thru the bye-pass into the oil passages NOT into the filter,REMEMBER a differance in oil pressure of only 5-10 lbs allows some or most oil to bye-pass the filter, and if your not aware of it, the addition of a bunch of free floating metallic dust from a ground up cam WILL CLOG THE FILTER so only the first few bits are likely to be trapped by the filter!! carefull placement of those powerfull magnets in the oil pan sump,traps the metallic dust BEFORE it can even enter the oil pump! having a magnet wrap on the filter is a bit like having a trama surgical team on stand bye if you know your going to get shot, it helps but a bullet proof vest , that PREVENTS the damage helps more (THE MAGNETS IN THE PAN) and not getting shot at at all is the best plan (useing the correct cam,dist gear,installation and properly built lube systen PLUS the magnets as a back-up is an even better idea!!) CAREFULL INSTALLATION,AND ENGINE BUILDING, PREVENTING TROUBLE BEATS FIXING PROBLEMS EVERY TIME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 DELETE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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