Mikelly Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 I'm looking at possible upgrades for the current powerplant and I know that 1 5/8 primary headers on a 383 are a little small. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that sells block huggers in a 1 3/4???? I'm currently using Flowtech Ceramic block huggers... Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Mike, Try www.rewarderheaders.com They have some 1 3/4" primary blockhuggers. They also make blockhuggers that will fit angle plug heads. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Hey Mikelly, Try Headers by Ed, if they don't carry them they have kits that allow you to make your own. www.headersbyed.com [This message has been edited by Z-Dreamer (edited August 07, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Mike, you might want to read this article http://www.centuryperformance.com/sanderson/headertech.htm and they have a link to Sanderson from their site. Sanderson offers a bunch of very high quality headers for the small block Chevy. I think they offer almost a dozen different block huggers and then some. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 I just wanted to add my 2cents.If you are planing on an upgrade,I would consider haveing a set of equal length,long tube headers made.Block huggers really aren,t a very good design,but they sure make engine swap exuaust problems alot easyer. [This message has been edited by RON JONES (edited August 07, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 Originally posted by RON JONES:I just wanted to add my 2cents.If you are planing on an upgrade,I would consider haveing a set of equal length,long tube headers made.Block huggers really aren,t a very good design,but they sure make engine swap exuaust problems alot easyer. At what hp does a block hugger start restricting? for ie. I have a roller 350 with RPM heads and cam has shown 424hp/417tq flywheel on ANOTHER v. similar engine (same cam and other bits). My setup isn't near this yet as I have to lower my engine somehow to allow a greater air entry to my carb and swap out my 1-1/2" headers (will sell my complete exhaust system...) for larger 1-3/4's to match my heads/flow etc. I'd hoped equal length wasn't neccesary on my build....?? comments? If a few of us are looking for these 1-3/4's we should see if we can warrant any 'deal' with rewarderheaders. I spoke with them and he was v. open to making minor mods to his headers at no xtra cost as long as a major redesign wasn't required. And for those frightened by the web price of ~$310US for a 1-3/4 set that DOES include their ceramic coating so seemed reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 8, 2000 Author Share Posted August 8, 2000 The flowtech headers are quality pieces and the ceramic coating is sweet. I like the way they fit and I used Stage 8 bolts on them. I put them on with the motor out of the car, but I'm not sure how easy they would be to swap out with the motor in the car... They cost $189 shipped from Jegs. As for shorties Vs. others... HotRod did a piece on them last year and you might be surprised at what they found... There is a reason I'm looking at increasing the size of the primaries and not going to a different design header... Equal length headers do make more power, but at a great fitment hurdle, and cost... Sanderson makes a great set of headers, as my buddy with the 55Chevy has them on his... and his are 1 3/4 and they are polished aluminum manifolds... very nice, but very pricey...$589 per set. I'm not ready to buy them just yet, and I'm already making some big power, and I'd probably see more HP gain by swapping in an electric fan.... Which is next on the list BTW, but I just wanted the info... FYI, I'll be saving the flowtechs for the convertible conversion, and if Flowtech made these in 1 3/4, I'd absolutely buy them! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 I HAVE A SET OF SANDERSON BLOCK HUGGERS ON MY 350. VERY GOOD QUALITY, NOT CHEAPIES. WILL WORK WITH STRAIGHT OR ANGLE PLUGS. MAKE SURE AND COAT THEM, I LEARNED THE HARD WAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 Yeah Mike, Sanderson cast headers can be expensive. I counted 30 different SBC headers on this page http://www.sandersonheaders.com/enginetype/chvysb49eng.htm and that does not include all the variations for different aftermarket heads (Edelbrock, Trickflow, Dart, etc.) However, they do have 1 7/8" block huggers for a SBC http://www.sandersonheaders.com/pagesbypartnum/cc178.htm. Or how about the http://www.sandersonheaders.com/pagesbypartnum/cc1ho.htm D port block huggers for those of us with HPO heads. They start at $225 but go higher if you want ceramic coated or stainless steel. Check'um out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 I had my muffler guy look at the snaderson blk huggers that zfan had me coat. I am having some 3/8 flange plates machined and he is going to make headers for me with 1 5/8 and 1 7/8 primary tubes. He is working on the design now, Trying to equal up the primarys, at least a little closer to equal. Hope to be able to offer SpeedTech block huggers with coating for around 239.95 Shouldnt be to much longer now . Tony PS zfan , did the coating solve your wire burning prob? ------------------ 74 260, sbc 350, 700r4, and a few little HP Mods.just gettin started good. www.speedtechcoatings.com [This message has been edited by takman57 (edited August 07, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 Be careful on block huggers and angle plug heads.. I had to mount my engine 2 inches higher than i wanted to because of clearance problems... Just look at the hood on my car to see the end result! Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 hey mike you said that you have the flow tech headers. i haven't seen a pair of them yet. how do you like the fit. what is the cost compare to hooker. i am still in the deciding spot for which header and if your headers are in still good shape if you get another pair then i would like to buy yours. my parnets only live about an hour and a half away from your place and i could just come and get them if you would like to sell. well later, chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 8, 2000 Share Posted August 8, 2000 Headers is one area where I'm still waffling too. I KNOW I want shorties thouogh - long tubes ain't worth the hassle. I know guys making well over 500hp on Ford motors with short headers - I'll skip the hassles of long tubes My blown 351W has shorties for just that reason, I'll sacrifice a few HP for the ease of use. More than once I've wondered here what size headers to run. Sanderson and Reward both have some good ones. Sanderson has nice cast manifolds if I recall but I wonder about weight! I'll talk to my engine builder about size but if anyone wants to get together for a group buy I'd be interested. Cast manifolds can always be ported if you have to and they ought to run quieter. They'll hold heat in too but remain warm longer I think. The cast turbo manifolds on my Mustang weighed close to 30+lbs apiece - that I don't want! Takman, how long is your turnaround for coating these days? I've not yet got my motor and while I told them I didn't want angle plug heads I'm waiting for it to show up before I order. If some sort of deal comes up for a header that everyone agrees works well I'd go for it. I too have been in quite a quandry about header selection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 I guess I’ll chine about my opinions of the 1 5/8 huggers vs. the 1 ¾ long tubes. Recently I switched from the block huggers to long tubes. I took the Z out to the track to test both combinations (before and after). Basically, I dropped about 0.25 seconds off my ET (11.55 vs. 11.30), picked up over 3 mph (116.8 vs. 120.3) and actually dropped 0.05 seconds off my 60 footers (1.65 vs. 1.60). To your typical drag racer, these times mean a lot. To your average street guy, these times mean nothing. The seat of the pants feel was no different when I switched to the long tubes. All the articles I have read indicated that shorties are “comparable†to long tubes until about 5000rpm. This is where the short tubes really start falling off and where the long tubes really start to excel. I run my motor up to about 6200-6300 so I was a little concerned about top end power. However, the fact that I went from 1 and 5/8 primaries to 1 and ¾ brought concerns about my long end torque. Well, I never saw that low end torque drop off, so I guess it’s a wash. I guess what I’m trying to say is this: If you really love drag racing, and you REALLY enjoy turning a wrench on your Z… go for the long tubes. Otherwise, save your time and stick with the block huggers. I cannot express (in words) how much of a royal b!tch it was to install those fricking long tube headers. If anyone asks you to install a set of these as a favor to someone, tell them it can’t be done!!! Besides, these people probably know what they’re getting into, therefore they are not your friends. All joking aside, it was a big job (as headers go). Also, I’m not sure if I will be able to pull the motor with the headers attached anymore. This was a big plus with the block huggers. With the block huggers, I could have the engine pulled out of there in under an hour. Now, the situation looks grim. Oh well, it’s the price we all have to pay for going fast. Drive On- Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 9, 2000 Author Share Posted August 9, 2000 This is the exact info I was looking for. If we are talking little to no gain....I like my Flowtechs just fine. I'm not sure I need to lose any more skin off my knuckles swapping in a set of headers that will get me .025" off my time slip since I'm a road racer at heart.... FYI, HotRod basically said the same thing... The choke point is in keeping factory cast manifolds Vs. anything aftermarket. Shorties are not the best, highest performer out there, but they aren't too far behind. If I build another 383 I'll do 1 3/4 primary block huggers, but for now I'll keep these and be happy! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 Yea,I tend to look at somethings a little differently.Two and a half tenths is ALOT in my eyes.Thats probobly close to 30-40 ponies.I agree you probpbly wouldn,t feel it on the street.When your car flat out hauls a$$,a little more HP is hard to notice. [This message has been edited by RON JONES (edited August 09, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 9, 2000 Share Posted August 9, 2000 Two and a half tenths for us street guys is about two and a half cars at the end of the quarter - that's significant IMO. That's .25 btw Mike if that makes a difference to you not .025 and I know some guys that slave to get that kind of improvement. However, this isn't a real true back to back test in my eyes. You not only switched from shorties to long tubes but you also switched primary pipe sizes! The question for tonight's bench race excercise (smile) is: Just what gave you the extra power - the larger primary tubes or the long tube header contruction? Damned good question I think and I'm really curious! what about weather and traction the day of the test - where did you pick up the time? Was it in the eighth or the top end? 60foot dropped so I'd have to wonder about launch RPM and traction. We could toss this back and forth all night From the hassle involved though I'm thinking I'll stick to shorties no matter what. Ground clearance and skinned knuckles are two things I don't want to have to worry about if I can help it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 10, 2000 Author Share Posted August 10, 2000 .25.... yea, my bad. OK, But I still say it isn't worth the extra time spent and the $300+ bucks... The time is primary and the money is a distant second. Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 10, 2000 Share Posted August 10, 2000 Just a little tidbit I recently read in the April 2000 Chevy High Performance mag about 1 5/8" headers vs. 1 3/4" headers. In doing a small block 406ci buildup they dyno'd the engine using both headers. Long story short...the larger 1 3/4" headers picked up only 12 hp @ 5700 rpm. But they lost 30 lb-ft of torque @2600 rpm. Needless to say they went with the smaller headers on the 406 and still ended up making 455 hp and 498 lb-ft from an n/a 406 with iron heads! Maybe the swap isn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 10, 2000 Share Posted August 10, 2000 .25 in the quarter is more than 12hp I'll bet. Without the weights and whatnot it's hard to say for sure how much HP was possibly gained but 12 sounds low. Realize too that this could be a small gain but across a large RPM range. Area under the curve is what you should always look at not peak HP. Peak HP is fine for bragging but a motor that pulls all the way across the RPM range is what wins at the end of the track and is lot's nicer to drive around town too. Interesting test by CHP, I'll have to look it up. I've not got a motor that big so that could help me decide what size headers tobuy. Right now I just don't know. Go cheap and small or buy Sanderson for the larger size and spend a bit more? Will the HP gain be worth it - magic 8ball is doubting it right about now since I don't race on all that often... Heh, I'll screw up the carb tune 12hp+ worth I've got no doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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