Guest Zachb55 Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Ok, im sure this has been discused, maybe it hasnt, but you'd be a better man then me if you can find a topic about it... I have a problem, and im hoping its an easy one and im just stupid, or ignorant cause this is my first time doing this. Ok, the car runs, but you cant drive a car without a clutch, or brakes really, but im only worried about the clutch right now. My step brother, step father and i all tried bleeding my clutch an it took lots of fluid, and a bunch of air came out (i took the whole assembly out of my car in case you didnt know) but the pushing on the clutch never got one bit harder, its like its still full of air... and the slave cylinder isnt moving a millimeter... so whats wrong guys? do i STILL have air in my lines? what can i do to make absolutely sure, i know i probably should have bench bled the thing, but i didnt, and i heard that it would still work even if i hadnt... so im hoping that im forgetting something, im thinking there is still just a ton of air in there somewhere, somehow, what do you think? -Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rick458 Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I do not recall if you changed your Master cylinder or not BOTH were shot on my 260Z and it does take a LOT of bleeding if you did change it out the master you must bleed it as well it did take a VERY long time to get all the air out of my system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QWKDTSN Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Bleeding the clutch is a B!tch. Yes it does take a long time and a lot of cursing. Just keep at it. Have your partner slowly push down on the pedal - once they've started pushing it down, slowly of course, crack open the bleeder, and BEFORE they hit the floor, close it up again. Lift the pedal and repeat. This makes sure no air sneaks into the bleeder while you have it open. Of course, this will ONLY work if you've bench bled the whole system! Take it all out, bleed it as best as you can on the bench - turn everything around, tap everything with a screwdriver, get all the bubbles out - then bleed it in the car. If this doesn't work, something's wrong! Good luck Edit - I just reread your post and read that you have not bench bled it - based on my own experience, you won't have any luck if you don't bench bleed it! There's nothing more satisfying than watching all those little bubbles come popping to the surface in the reservoir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 a little trick I have learned is to stick a long (3ft) piece of vacuum hose over the bleeder and then stick that into a jar for the fluid to go into. Once you start bleeding the vacuum line holds enough fluid to help make sure you dont suck any air up into the lines. As Nion said, bench bleeding is practically a necessity when you have a lot of air in the system. It was pumping fluid and bubbles out when you were bleeding it so a bench bleed wouldnt be as likely to be needed. By the way, how much fluid did you use? If you didnt go through a whole big bottle and you know you had air in there I would gander a guess that you still have some air. You also might consider pumping the peddle all the way to the floor. Some people say you should not do this because "this over-extends the pushrod". About the other 80% of people say they are wrong. I have bled hydraulics on every car I have owned and always went to the floor and had great results. On one car I tried not going to the floor and found that I never got all of the old fluid out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Lets step back first and make sure you have the basic bleeding procedure down first: Fill reservoir open bleed just enough to let fluid flow press pedal and hold close bleed raise pedal repeat until no bubbles flow from a clear tube atached to the bleed and never let the reservoir run dry. The specific reason for this order is to draw fluid from the reservoir, push it through the lines and out the bleed screw. Failing to close the bleed screw between strokes will draw air back into the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 If you have the right equipment, bleed from the slave cylinder up. Take bleeder valve out, and force fluid in the slave so it pushes the fluid, and bubbles up into the clutch master. I only had to do this once, and it worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 There is another way as well. It's messy, requires two buckets and a lot of fluid, but it is fool proof. You said you had the entire system out of the car. Fill both buckets with enough brake fluid to submerge both the master and slave in each bucket. Remove the bleed screw and pump the master by hand untill there is no doubt all the air is removed. Pump fast, pump slow, long, short. Turn the parts upside down, move'em all around. Do the Hokey Pokey for about an hour and you should have it. Make sure you reinstall the bleed screw before you lift the slave out of the bucket. If it stil doesn't work after that you have bad parts or the wrong parts (in my case it was the wrong parts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I just did this. replaced my master and slave cause they were sooooo old. Just put both in the car. Filled it with fluid. Had a friend pump pedal once and hold down. i was under the car and once it was held down i opened the bleeder with a tube attached and the end in a jar. I did this about a dozen or so times. Press and hold pedal, open valve, wait a few seconds, close valve and repeat. It was my first bleeding job and it couldn't have been easier. I would recomend replacing the master and slave if you don't know how old they are since you are there anyway. Why do it twice. They are fairly inexpensive from VB. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zachb55 Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 thanks for the replies guys, i guess the problem may be that i just didnt do it enough, i really would prefer not to have to take the master cylinders (both brake and clutch, only tried bleed clutch so far) out again after just getting all that stuff in, but if you believe it will not be successful by just putting in fluid and bleeding a previously completely empty system, then i guess that could be my problem too... i just thought it was weird that i didnt have any slave cylinder movement at all, even after going through a proceedure of my step brother pumping the clutch 3-4 times, then holding it down, while i open valve for a few seconds, then close it, and all the while my step dad was topping off the res. i didnt use a clear tube cause my step dad "didnt think it was neccesary" but i will pick one up so i can actually tell if air is coming out with the fluid or not. i have a big bottle of fluid and probly went through about 2 resivors worth before giving up..... so i guess inexperience has just marred my ability to tell if i've been doing it long enough to know something is wrong or not. but thanks for your tips, ill take notes and see if i can figure something out! -Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Did you change the master cylinder with a new one. You didn't say. My problem when I did it the first tim was that I had the wrong master cylinder. It looked exactly the same but the push rod length was a little smaller than the original. Where did you buy it? Was the clevis pin a bitch to put back in or was it somwhat easy. With a wrong master the pin will be a pain to get in. If it is the correct one it will line up with the pedal whole real well and slide in without much problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zachb55 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 well i took my whole car apart and then i cleaned up and painted the old master and put it back in, i mean the clutch and brakes were working pretty well before, i figured it wouldnt be a big deal just to throw them back in there. hopefully today ill have some time to go out and tinker with things. -Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zachb55 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Ok, the clutch used to work but now im having some doubts about bleeding it any more to help it, and this is why; when i have someone pump the clutch pedal all that happens is the brake fluid flows back into the resivor, like nothing is sealing to push it down the tube to the slave... do your's do this? i cant imagine this would be right, is there a reason to this or are the seals or the whole thing just bad? if so is there a better clutch master to go with then the 72 240Z one that would bolt up? something a little stronger maybe, because if imma replace this one then i want to get the best one for my money... thanks for the help guys, please let me know what you think about the fluid going back into the res.! -Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I'm resurrecting this thread to ask a question about troubleshooting the hydraulic clutch. It was the only thread I can find, searching the brake forum, on the hydraulic clutch. My problem isn't with my Z, but it might as well be, as the Subaru clutch seems identical. The problem is the clutch will slowly lose travel. I can bleed the slave, and it will work again, for a while (a week or so). There seems to be no fluid loss, just air getting pumped in. Where is the fault more likely - the slave or the master? I'd rather not shotgun it if I can help it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Sounds like air is being pulled in from a fitting somewhere..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Well I'm inclined to guess the air is getting in behind the master, as if there were a place for air to get in anywhere else, it would squirt fluid when the clutch is disengaged. Just thinking out loud here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Unbolt the slave and master and look for signs of leaking fluid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Yeah, I'll unbolt the master, as I've already checked the slave. It's real nice having it right on top of the engine - I don't even have to remove the airbox to get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I'm in the middle of bleeding my clutch system and am also experiencing some frustrations. I've bled the master cylinder at least ten times (one time being a cycle of pushing the pedal all the way and then opening the bleed screw, releasing fluid, tightening the bleed screw and then allowing the pedal to return to the up position) and the clutch slave cylinder (stock Chevy for a T-5) at least twenty times. I only have about 1/2" of movement in the clutch fork and I know it should move at least an inch. The bleed screw on the stock GM slave cylinder doesn't have a nipple to attach a hose to, so I took it all the way out, thinking I would try to match it to one that does. Unfortunately, it isn't like most other bleed screws. This one doesn't have a hole down the middle, fluid just comes out around the threads when you loosen it. Any suggestions here, other than just continuing to go through the same motions? I only had it apart for a couple of weeks and it worked fine before that and, from what I can remember, I never had these issues when I initially did it a couple of years ago, when I first got it running. Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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