Guest xero Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 so I keep hearing peopel talking about wanting cross-flow heads. I figure that would be a fun personal project for my 2nd year at college, seeing as I'm a machining student and 2nd year is CNC. (I'm doing manual machining right now) anyway, I'm no engineer, and wouldn't even know where to start as far as combustion chamber design and stuffs. Anyone know where I could get an idea, or maybe a RB design would work nicely? Like essentially copy the RB head and make it adapted to the L series? any ideas, suggestions, flames? I figure I can get a nice hunk of cast iron and sit there for days machining a head, but it might be worth it, seeing as I could charge a pretty penny for a cross-flow head but would anybody buy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sleepr240 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I know that there is a company who makes a DOHC cross flow type head for the L-serise blocks and they charge like $10,000 for one. Your best bet probably would be to, as you said, take an RB head and virtually copy it and make it bolt to the L-serise block. Or even better, just take the measurments from like the P90 head and get with someone who is into AutoCad Drafting and the 2 of you can pump something out. Either way, good luck and if you do build on, post some pics and possible a price if you decide to make multiples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Designing the head is an engineering project, making it is a machining project. Try to find a mechanical engineering student who needs a project and maybe you guys can work together. Expect it to take a couple years to complete with all the other coursework you'll have. Regarding the marketability of the head, find a marketing student and add them to your project team. FYI... the entire market for that head is less then 20 worldwide assuming $10K pricing and maybe 40 if you can get the price down to $5K. The head would not be legal for any sanctioned road racing class here in the US and that's where the people are that spend tens of thousands of dollars on L6 engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Look for some posts on here by turbobluestreak (I think that is his name). He was working on some CAD drawings for just the head you are describing. I don't think anyone will buy an iron head for the L6. Plan on using AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xero Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 thanks guys, aluminum will be a million times easier to machine too, but I was concerned about warpage, I'd have to figure out the proper alloy of aluminum and whatnot, I was also thinking of using alot of the mechanical parts from the RB head like cams, etc...maybe even a L series turbo kit using the whole head? Iunno if anyone would buy it, but thanks for the feedback, if there's any more, it'd be appreciated, it's always better to use your resources, and this is one of them As far as cost, aluminum wouldn't cost too much, I'd say $1000 TOPS, and that's pushing it for a soild billet, maybe another grand for cams, that I may also be able to make from a solid billet, as well as all the other head parts and manifolds. So I'd say 3k tops for MY costs, and I don't even think it'd be that much, so I'd say I could sell it for 5grand easy. But that's only while I'm in college, I may be able to sell the design to someone down the road and they can manufacture it, 'cause I won't have free access to a CNC mill and lathe, anyway, thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 For $5k, though...you can have an RB26DETT installed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 wow! I saw my name being mentioned on that list. Yah I'm trying to desing a DOHC 24 valve crossflow head I have to wait for the KA24DE valve get here to work on it some more but I'll be using the skyline manifolds for this head and will be a direct bolt up chain driven head. xero I would love to work on this project with you I'm a first year mechanical engering student here in OHIO. your numbers sound about right for cost of a custom head. Let me know if your in. I want one and would help with cost. sleeper240 the head you are refering to in the OS giken head that is no longer in production yes it was about 10K for one. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 RB26DETT 5K??? for the motor and shipping then a RB25 tranny, custom mounts, and custom drive shaft. it adds up real fast. also the L28et has the same boar as the Rb26 nut a longer stroke. So I would think that it would be benifitial to have a head like the RB series on the L6 Datsun motor. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I don't know if their still in business...but, there used to be a place called Okinawa Imports that had an RB26DETT+Trans+Ecu+Harness for $2800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vashonz Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 You might try first casting it in aluminum, in tacoma theres a place that will do custom casting, I know they make turbo housings for one of the local shops. http://www.creativecastingco.com/. I got a quote from them on casting a window striker part(small simple part), and it was 2000-3000 for a sand mold (this would be set up to make thousands), and 15k-20k for a die cast mold. If they do lost foam casting it might make it alot easier. If you need an L-series engine to help design it, ive got a couple you can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 hey vashonz I'll look into creative casting and see about prices but I still think billet is the best way to go. Just because last time I looked into sand casting for the first run. A company would have to make a muilti layer head to get all of the internal featers for the molds. The price qoute I got from two companies was in the 12k-14k range for one head. Now if I was making like 10,000 heads that would be cost effective but this is a smaller production scale and doesn't make since to me unless someone on the boards is a experanced mold maker but me and xero have been talking about this off of the boards last night and if we get together on this I'm going to go with a billet. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Adam Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 There was a thread recently on zcar about using the head from the six cylinder used in the mercedes 280 SEL from the mid seventies. It is a crossflow/double overhead cam head. Of course, as we all know, the L engine is based on the MB straight six. Several guys seemed to think there was some potential there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xero Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 for a run of thousands of heads, like that of an OEM, yes, sand casting is cost effective, and that may be how they do it, but just 'cause the OEMs do it, doesn't mean it's the best for every situation. In this case, Billet is the way to go, the highest that a billet of the proper material should cost would be somewhere near a grand. I'll then have to purchase some end mills, and some other cutters, and really figure out the machining aspect of it, but like I said, total shouldn't be more than 3 grand, maybe 4 tops. Providing we use my idea of using all RB26 parts like cams, valves, and other bits, and just make it for the L series block. BTW, TBS, thanks for the pics of the OS Giken head, and that "cop car engine" that you showed me was actually the Skyline GT2000 engine, 2.0L I-6, DOHC racing engine, deeeeaaaad sexxxy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 At what point does $3000+ for an engine head become viewed as crazy? I have been looking into finding an existing head to make work for a little while now, but I would never consider the cost to make a brand new head design. The amount of HP that you would gain for that extreme cost is negligable. Even if you could increase the flow capability by 30%, even a 300HP engine would only go up about 100HP. $30/HP, and that wouldnt even be across the RPM range! For that price you could install a pair of superchargers and force in more air than the cylinder can even hold, regardless of what head you have on the engine now, and probably produce more HP than the bottom-end can handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=196988#196988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 In this case, Billet is the way to go, the highest that a billet of the proper material should cost would be somewhere near a grand. Buy two. You're bound to screw up the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Boy, this is getting annoying with two threads about the same topic. Any way they can be joined? BTW, I did some research before on an unrelated subject and found that you can purchase a setup for melting and pouring metals for a few thousand dollars. If a suitable mold were to be made (I'd probably be up to the task), would it not be significantly cheaper and faster to cast the heads? It would probably even be cheaper if we just took the mold(s) to a facility to pour the cast. If someone could design it, I could design and make the mold to make a close model, then someone with machining skills could smooth out the rough spots and precision parts like where the cams sit and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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