Guest Anonymous Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Very interesting to say the least, I rolled on the power and the car came to life and scared the **** outta me! But.... after I ran it a little it started loseing power so I pulled it in the garage. I raced the engine to about 2000rpm and after about a minute the headers started to glow red (hooker block huggers, ceramic coated) and the engine started to lose power and lost about 500 rpm. Water temp is 190 and all the gauges read ok.... any ideas anyone? I setup the timeing per the EFI manual but it sounds like it's retarded... maybe? HELP!!!!!! ------------------ Dan, 78 280Z, 383FI, 700R4 allmost ready! http://members.home.net/dporter1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Dan.. Sounds like it is running to lean. What fuel management system are you running? Darth Vader ------------------ You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Darth, Im running Edelbrock Pro-Flo EFI, thats what I thought also but damn! I have richend the fuel mixture to +30% over the base calibration. The manual says that for a 383 that I should add +6% and start from there... maybe this thing just wants more fuel? I dunno, the base calibration is for a 350 with the same compression, cam, valve size, headers and exuhast that I have, do you think a 383's fuel requirmnet is that much higher? I can't say either way, I just don't know. The only differnce is that the heads they used were iron heads and im useing alluminum. ------------------ Dan, 78 280Z, 383FI, 700R4 allmost ready! http://members.home.net/dporter1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Dan Its not really the displacement you have to contend with...it also has to do with compression, cam size (lift and duration), valve size, and the cfm of the throtlebody. on a very mild (I mean very mild) 383 that might be the case, but when you run a high cfm, big cam, big valves (not the stock 1.96) then the motor is going to require much more fuel. Take a stock 350...straight from the factory..it can run on 22lb injectors and would be fine. Now take that same motor and bump up the comp. from 9:1 to 10:1, put in a big bumpstick (cam), and go from 600cfm to 800cfm. Now the motor is going to breath more air and is much more proformance oriented therefor needing more fuel...22lb injectors are not going to cut it now in that "stock" motor. So you put in bigger injectors and set the fuelmaps a little higher than the base setup and then check the data log (yours has datalogging right) and see what the motor is needing. It may need more..may need less (depending on the injectors you went with. But..on your engine and what you are describing...I would have to say that it is running way lean. I would bump it up a little and see what that does, if you run rich..well..the worst that you do is foul out plugs...but if you run lean...well..lets just say that before long you will have a pretty art display in your engine well. I hope that maybe I have been of some help..let me know how it go's Darth Vader ------------------ You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted February 20, 2000 Share Posted February 20, 2000 Dan, I have no suggestions - timing and fuel would be what I would check. I just wanted to say COOL! You got her on the road! Keep the wheel side down, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 20, 2000 Share Posted February 20, 2000 Thanks for the help guys but.... I have been messing with the tuning of this FI setup for over a month now and have been talking to everyone (edelbrock, my engine builder etc) and today I just got feed up with it! I posted a couple of forsale ads today and have allready sold it. Im going carb, im done messing with it, it has been more hassle than it's worth. I could never seem to get it to run right in all areas, If I got it to idle right then I would have other problems, on and on and on.... Im going back to a carb, been there done that and im comfortable with them. Anyways im rambling... ------------------ Dan, 78 280Z, 383FI, 700R4 allmost ready! http://members.home.net/dporter1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted February 20, 2000 Share Posted February 20, 2000 Dan, The other possibility is waht you already mentioned. Double check the timing because it sounds like it is retarded a bunch. At GM we use to retard the timing on an engine while it was on the dyno to get those dramatic "glowing red hot header" shots. If you have changed the balancer, timing cover and/or pointer you may have to use a dial indicator to get the true TDC. The reason the headers glow is because the fuel is contiuning to burn in the header as it exits the cylinder. The good news is it usually doesn't hurt anything except the finish on the headers. The bad news is, that once you get the timing where it should be (~15 degrees), you ain't seen nothin yet - it is REALLY going to scare the s... out of you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Kinda quite today, anyways i pulled my EFI today and had to pull the cam also, my engine builder is sending me all the parts I need to convert to a carb setup. Im letting him get me the parts because once I put the parts on it will be the exact setup he sells for his 383 engine and it's dyno proven to 450hp.... jeez were am I going My question is about the tranny, i need to replace my tourqe converter, my stall speed is to low and I was wondering, I have a 700r4 can I put a non-lockup converter in place of the lockup type? Will this eliminate the lockup control that I need to run now? or are there internal changes that need to be made to the tranny? HELP... again ------------------ Dan, 78 280Z, 383FI, 700R4 allmost ready! http://members.home.net/dporter1/ [This message has been edited by Dan Porter (edited February 20, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Dan, Look in summit or jegs catolog for a 700r4 non-lockup converter. You will not need the lockup device anymore with these converters. Be ready to spend some money because the higher stall converters and non-lockup at that will be a little high. Hope that I have been some help Darth Vader ------------------ You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Dan, At least you got a little taste of how it would run! I know the first time i drove my car it scared the crap out of me too. i am in the same boat as you with the 700r4 I pulled mine this weekend and it is going in for a rebuild and i think i am going to go for a non-lockup system as well just because i dont want the hassle of jacking with the wires and such for the lockup converter. I will let you know what I find out. What carb are you going to run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 I'm also going to run the Edelbrock Pro-Flo EFI, and my engine builder already warned me that I should dyno the engine to break in the cam and set up the EFI. He said it takes alot of tuning to get it right, but once it is set it's great. He also told me about glowing headers when you first start running this setup, and that you have to fix it fast or you'll melt parts. So after hearing all the problems with Dan's EFI, I will be dynoing my engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Don't get me wrong about EFI, I think it's great but because this is going to be my fun car iv'e decided to keep it simple. My biggest problem is that no one here in town seems to know how to tune the Pro-Flo setup, I mean I would have paid whatever amount to get it setup right, If this car was going to be a daily driver I would have tried harder to make the EFI work but.... oh well. Cam selection seems to be critical also, I would recommned deciding on how much cam you want and calling edelbrock for a part # and useing the exact one they recommend. Then as Mike Kz says, have it dyno tuned by someone who knows the setup. Im still on the fence about the non-lockup converter, I heard that the lockup type run cooler and get better gas milage. Per my engine builder here are some of the parts he is sending me: Custom ground cam (not sure the mfgr) but close to a Comp Cams 280. 232dur .480lift Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake Holly 750 dbl pumper Not sure about the carb, iv'e allways been a Carter AFB carb man myself but it's what he recommends so.... It's funny, now that I look back on it the conversion was simple, where I have had most of my problems are in the engine related area. But, my engine guy says that once I set it up with the parts he is sending me that im going to be so damn happy, he gaurantes it. (thats why I have the happy icon next to my post) ------------------ Dan, 78 280Z, 383FI, 700R4 allmost ready! http://members.home.net/dporter1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Dan, I can sympathise with you. The last L6 motor I built was a fuel injected motor with an electramotive ignition management coilpack and the factory nissan computer. The motor was capable of 250HP, but was super finicky. By the time I sorted it all out I was so fed up with electronics and fuel injection and that motor that I sold it and converted the car to V8 and went with a carb. Sometimes simple is best. I'd love to convert mine to fuel injection down the road, but I'm affraid of the exact things you have been going thru! Good luck! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted February 22, 2000 Share Posted February 22, 2000 Dan, As far as the nonlockup deal, a performance shop quoted me 1200 yesterday for rebuilding my tranny and what they do is "block off" the lock-up converter portion of the valve body. If you are looking for a performance 700r4 make sure that you get a valve body from a z28/firebird/corvette. a corvette servo,13 vane pump,spring kit and a performance govener. The shop i talked to does raelly high end trannys and he guarenteed his to be awsome. he also said that you cannot modify a valve body from other vehicles (trucks,passanger cars) to work like the Z28/firebird. My tranny has all the performance stuff in it already except the valve body. That is 300 new from a dealership. I just cant afford 300 for a valve body and another 1200 on top of that to get my 700r4 working properly... I scrounged a th350 with a fresh B&M rebuild and 2500rpm stall that was in a 604 hp/31" slicks car and it worked flawlessly.. 300.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 22, 2000 Share Posted February 22, 2000 We have a shop in Woodbridge, Va that has a Chassis dyno and I plan to get my car to them by late March for final tweeking. This is really the best way to get the most out of tuning. I expect I'll find some big surprises then that I would otherwise not have found! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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