Guest zfan Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Kim Barr racing of Dallas, Tx. Bench flowed my Canfield 23-500-65 heads. 65cc chambers, 197cc runners, 2.055 intake valve, 1.60 exhaust valve. intake 100 lift-58 200 lift-122 300 lift-187 400 lift-235 500 lift-260 exhaust 100 lift-53 200 lift-102 300 lift-135 400 lift-166 500 lift-181 71% split. This was with out of the box heads with cnc'd chambers and untouched intake and exhaust ports. this is lower than advertised but they state the advertised heads had mild bowl blended ports. I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make. I bought the heads from Competition products set up for a hydraulic roller cam with 130-140 seat pressure and 325 open. Kim Barr checked the springs and found them to be 100 seat and 240 at open. I called Competition products and he( Butch) was suprised and is sending me new Isky springs that are rated 135 at seat and 340 open. Needless to say I am dissapointed in the overall service/quality. I wish Canfield would not recommend them when you call. overall I would have gone AFR knowing what I know now. to get the heads to flow decent you spend as much as a good set of AFR's. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Mike I hate to be an ass but I know you would have loved the AFRS, I mean 450HP off the crank from a 350 40 over isnt too shabby. Im sure your Canfields will work just maybe a little more expensive to duplicate. Lets us know how she runs down the track. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Corzette, Did you purchase your heads from AFR and if so did you have them set it up for a roller cam? If so if you don't mind what did they cost you. I know you have the 190's but they are the the same price I think. Also the 190's have been discontinued! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Kim Barr will treat you right...I've used him before, and he will not take any short cuts. Is he in Dallas now, last time I used him he was in Garland. The only problem you might find w/his shop is his work schedule...always overloaded (I take this to mean his reputation is a good one) Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Kevin, I stand corrected! Garland not Dallas Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Mike, I specifically told AFR What cam and setup I was building (just like the one on thier site). He said the springs out of the box were fine for that build. I paid $1250 for the heads ported etc out of the box and $140 for match porting the AFR intake I got with it seperate $195 I think plus shipping. I bought directly from AFR. It was a patience game because they said they had to make them but I am happy with them. No problems at all yet except that damn 700R4 shifting woes....like your old one was. CZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Thanks for the info Terry! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 AnyTime.... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Well took the heads back to Kim Barr racing and he looked them over and said they need full radius valve job as the set up currently sucks. Bad job he says, most of those shops like Competition products due inferior head work. He thinks he can get around 12 cfm's by just doing this procedure. Well I will find out next week. He is going to put the Isky springs on as well. 150 bucks for the job. Hopefully well worth it. fingers crossed! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ls1z4me Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Sorry to here about your problems . It sounds like you got it under control now. Just wanted to mention that I work with guy by the name of Greg VanDeventer, who I feel is the best LT5 top end guy in the country. He is doing a set of LT1 heads, intake and TBU for 69 Camaro. And when I get around to the LS1 for my Z32 Ill have him work the heads over on it.. This is his web page, http://members.cox.net/vdracing/index.html He is a super nice guy and I am sure he could answer any question about cylinder head flow. Good luck , Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Thanks Josh! I checked his site, pretty cool stuff. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 other option http://www.ondoperformance.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I got a call from Kim Barr racing today. They worked on my Canfield 200cc heads, wow what they said was not great (flattering) re quality of the work that Competition Products does to get Canfields bare casting ready for the customer. The did a full radius valve job and recut/sized the bowls because they were a mess. Good thing is it only set me back 250 bucks I am going to call Canfield directly tommorrow and let them know what crap the heads were and how much it cost me to correct the damage Comp. products shipped me In my opion it will hurt Canfield to allow them to continue to sell garbage. I'm out 250 for head work, 120 for gaskets, faulty springs 89, 50 to reflow them. Shit adds up!!!!!!!! DO NOT BUY JACK SHIT FROM COMPETITION PRODUCTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike I only wish I had heard info from Pete before I purchased. By the way Canfield is partially to fault as they told me to go directly to Comp. products, that's what smarts the most Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Looks like the language-check demon strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 ..' date=' I am going to call Canfield directly tommorrow and let them know what crap the heads were and how much it cost me to correct the damage Comp. products shipped me In my opion it will hurt Canfield to allow them to continue to sell garbage. I'm out 250 for head work, 120 for gaskets, faulty springs 89, 50 to reflow them. dodo adds up!!!!!!!! DO NOT BUY JACK dodo FROM COMPETITION PRODUCTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/quote'] Zfan, Not trying to stur the pot here, but when you call Canfield, be sure to remind them that they are the experts. They are also responsible for referals they make within other compainies they wholesale to when making those referals. Because they are the experts, and their expert opinions resulted in their referal to an inferior peformance shop...YOU ARE NOW OUT BIG BUCKS because of their incompetance! Advise them you are not a sue happy person...but if you were you would have no problem sicking an atty to recoup your losses. Now, make your proposal like this...after making your previous statement outlining your disatisfaction in their referal: "Since I am not a sue-happy person, and I have already been advised that have a legitamate complaint (I am an ex-premises liability adjuster: so you've been advised ), what in the interest of CUSTOMER SATISFACTION ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO MAKE ME A HAPPY CUSTOMER which will result in my TELLING ALL MY FRIENDS WHAT A GREAT COMPANY CANFIELD IS?" After you've made this statment.....SHUT YOUR MOUTH and dont say a word. Listen to the silence on the other end-you can actually hear their wheels in their head turning sometimes. Be sure they are the first ones to speak. After this proposal, keep your comments to their inquiries as short as possible. Let them do all the talking. If they dont indemnify your out of pocket expenses (brought about by their incompetance); tell them they can bet their bottom dollar you will be telling all your friends what a lousy company they are as well as their vendors. BTW: you have a lot of hot rod friends on the multiple Bulletin Boards that you visit on a weekly basis that would be very pleased in knowing they should not do business with Canfield or its vendors. Also be sure to remind them the rework of your cyl.heads was done by a well known Performance Race Shop whose reputation preceeds itself and that you have their receipts if they need to see them: if they would like to call him-give them Kim Barr's ph# and tell them you are expecting them to call you back soon after they have confirmed your statements. Be sure you get a first & last name of whom you are speaking with, their office ph#, and their personal extension if they give them out and make an agreement with whomever has the authority to make a decision as to when they will be calling you back. Lastly; if they are willing to work w/you be sure to get their mailing address. You will want to write up a letter to them outlining what they have agreed to do for you. Make a copy of this letter and keep the copy for yourself. Mail this letter ASAP to the person you are dealing with. This lets them know you are going to hold them to their word: their word being whatever promisses they made to you. In the letter, keep it all business-no low punches. Keep it short and simple and to the point. Try to keep in on one page. Good luck-hope things work out for you. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Mike, Very sorry to have heard about all this. I had heard about the alleged inferior work by Comp Products on the Canfield castings on Chevytalk.org in a post that linked to an F-body site. See the 5th post down on this page: http://hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18584 I posted flow results on my Canfield heads on the nastyZ28 post: http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/005042.html and thanked them for the warning. I also agree with hhott71 on the second page of that thread - having the larger AFR heads (210cc and above) machined to anything smaller than the 76cc chamber they come with makes them VERY expensive. Steam holes are like $60. AFR just Nickel & Dime's You to death! (JMO ) doechsle in his post on the second page on the last thread linked above makes a great speech on buying on price and what it gets you sometimes. Anyway, those sets of posts are EXACTLY why when I called Canfield I told them about the bad rep Comp Products was getting on the Canfield heads and that I only wanted to buy heads MACHINED AND ASSEMBLED BY CANFIELD. The guy I talked to at Canfield (Ken) sent me to Thunder Racing Product (TRP) (330-792-2451). Ken said that TRP only sells heads assembled by Canfield, and that I could get a much better price through TRP than straight from Canfield. Dave at TRP treated me very well, made sure that I was buying what I needed, etc. Good service! I've bought other stuff from Dave since then -always satisfied. Oh, food for thought - flow numbers don't necessarily equate to horsepower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Thanks Pete, I had the heads cleaned up and reflowed and they are now flowing like they should. 250 bucks to correct the crap they sent me I just built a 383 and with the Canfield heads and have not dynoed the motor yet. I did run the car at Ennis, Tx. Saturday and have some bugs to work out still but it ran 11.62 at 118 mph. Not to shabby. Probably low 11's when I get it all straightened out. I only wished that Ken told me to go to Thunder Racing instead of selling me their inferior crap Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 11.62@118!!! Not bad at all for a street car! Just kidding - that's impressive! Glad you got it all worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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