Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 i wish i could do some measurements and etc, but im not there and my dad is pretty losted on this whole thing. if i had the money and the time off school i would fly down and work on the car but i just cant.. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 i wish i could do some measurements and etc' date=' but im not there and my dad is pretty losted on this whole thing.if i had the money and the time off school i would fly down and work on the car but i just cant.. mike[/quote'] Just to update those checking this thread......Mike and I have been emailing and the culprit is most likely the strut sectioning combined with wheel OD and rim width resulting in zero susp. travel. At present I'm most in favour of a solution same as or similar to what Terry proposed up above with pipe halfs and clamps to get Mike's ride functional for immediate requirements. My reasoning for this is I'm not positive taller spring swill just solve this. I'm not positive Mike's struts have enough extension to extend an additional 3 to 4" which is what he'd likely be raising his car to with longer springs. Without measuring present strut extension/droop I can't make an informed decision. Using Terry's suggestion the car can be 'raised' the 1.5" min. the sleeve can be raised plus the lower adjusting nut has at least an additional 1/4" if not more it can be raised. At this point the fender should be raised effectively 1.75" from present location. Still may not be enough as some indicators lead us to think the fenders may have not yet been at rest when they contacted the wheels. Seeing as the wheel wells will have to be chopped for the flare install it seems appropriate that these get slimmed now to provide an additional 1/2" minimum up to the max Mike can remove to fit the intended flares. But for the informed decision IMO we/I need to know what ride height Mike really wants. What rocker height does that put him at? Should be 5" or higher typically for reasonably geometry. I can easily fire out 12" springs but they're NEVER required for a setup like this unless we're bandaiding something else (ie. excessively short struts & hopefully enough insert extension remains if 12's are the solution). They're just excess weight/length and geometrical interference where wider rims should be tucked in to the struts IMO as they'll already be projecting a force centreline further outboard than OEM, no point making that greater than necessary IMNSHO. Side note largely unrelated........I've run my front rim/tire combo within 3/32's of my struts for a few years and then changed tires...resultant slight changes cleared fine initially......then seemed to seat in slightly and had such a mild interference it rubbed the anodizing off a few threads of my coilover collars and left the slightest indentated/lines in the 'letters' on the side of my tires. I bumped them out 1/8" from that location and I can't go further out or in at my present ride height......further out (1/4") and my tire will catch my inner fender lip/grab it and pull it down and slice into outermost edge of tiretread. Setups can easily be fitted in tight proximities when they're planned and followed up with check's during install and use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Ross. what if i put say a wheel spacer in the rear to push out the wheels abit, enough to clear the bigger springs? would thsi work? cuz my dad just moved up the springs as high as they can go now and you still cant even put a toothpick between the tires and fenders.. im not sure how much ill need to cut off the fenders, but im thinking my rear i sgonna go down even more then we all think.. ill do what you guys think is best, as you guys no what sbest.. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 so what do you guys think of that idea? i need to get this done!!! thanks mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Mike, obviously a spacer will work. It may be nothing more than a 1/8" or 1/4" spacer for all we know. Unless I am under the car looking at it with my own eyeballs, I'd hesitate to say "do this or do that". What you need to do is get the car at the ride height you need for the immediate future, then decide what you need to make this new height "permanent" (with the assumption that you will probably lower it a bit when the quarterpanel work is done). If the spring and perch-nut clear everything at an acceptable ride height geometry, then longer springs will be the best option in my humble opinion. But you are blind with reqards to what you need until you do this, and thus risk more fustration. Re-read every posted so far, think on it, and then decide what you need to do. Unfortunately, we can only make a call based on your posts (which helped a lot), but until I can see the problem, I can't give good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Hey Terry, thanks for all the help. this is what i have came up with. making a spacer to move the red sleve up 1.5inchs so its at the very top. then run a 10 or 12in spring. thing is will i need to run a wheel spacer for the 10 or 12in springs? im also gonna get my dad to cut the stock fenders, but im just not sure how much, what do most ppl do when they run ZG flares? i was thinking like a inch or 1.5inchs.. i think this MIGHT work, but im not as smart as your or other on all this. also i was thinking of a higher spring rate then the 250 i have already. say a 300? just to be on the safe side. what ya think? thanks again man, and everybody else... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Just so you know, I am using CCW's (17x10 rear, 17x9 front) with sectioned struts, GC Coilovers, EMI Racing camber plates, and Koni 8610 shocks and do not have any such clearance problems. On not-quite-the-highest ride height setting using 10" 175lb springs there is a good 1/2"+ clearance from the fender. I left it this way and managed to roll the car to the bodyshop with not a hint of rubbing. There's also probably another inch worth of height I could increase if I could get my hand in there properly Just my $0.02, but higher spring rates are probably not the correct answer to your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 well i dont no whats my problem then. how much did you section off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 well i dont no whats my problem then.how much did you section off? JohnC will have to chime in here as I didn't trust my welding enough to do this myself. I believe it was a collaborative effort between John and Erik (Messley, who recommended my setup). Sorry to hear about your problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 thanks, please let me no how much you sectioned off, as if i need to get new rear strut tubes i can start from scratch and do it right. if i can fix my car with it the way it is now and save money that would be the best, as im pretty broke mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Well Mike, via your personal email etc it doesn't sound like you have the resources to do Terry's mod in your timeframe so perhaps the longer springs are your only solution right now (short of convincing those that told you to section/section to rescusitate the car ). My main concern is you won't have enough extension in your struts to accomodate the longer springs as your lower point/gland nut is fixed and you require some 3" or more extension for a reasonably static ride height let alone added travel for droop during driving (my guess at what you need). You should NOT need wheel spacers to push your wheels out as your moving your top point of your spring upward, shouldn't have to move it downward very much unless unless your spring length/ride height requires the patched up geometry resulting from the oversectioning. Your struts have ~7" maximum extension. I think you've got a chance with longer springs. From your pics you posted on page 1, I'm guessing your strut compressed to about 3" of max compression. With ~ 7" travel then you may have up to 4" more of extension. Using 3" of this to raise your car and leaving the additional 1" for a safety 'droop'margin may be allowable. I'd go with 12" springs and then you can lower your adjustable perch if required. FIRST I'd have someone (I think we're all feeling sympathetic to your dad!) measure what would be a workable ride height for your car. We'll assume you require 1.5" MINIMUM air gap between top of tire and your fenderwell. (for Mike specifically/not to be typically applied to normal setups!!) So have your dad measure distance from edge of tire/top to centre of your rear stub axle, let's assume this is 13". Add 1.5" to this 13" for 14.5". Now with the car jacked up/blocked up in the air, raise a rear stub axle such that it measures 14.5" from bottom of fenderwell lip to the centre of the stub axle. This is your new desired 'minimum' ride height. block the rear stub axle in this same height so it's not moving. Now measure the extension present in the strut, this will be the shiny piston extending out of your strut tube......you want to know how much is exposed out of the strut tube, measure from top of gland nut to the underside of your TOP aluminum hat I supplied you. If this measurement is about 5.5 to 6" then it appears you may have enough strut extension to use longer springs to get out of this pinch. If this measurement is 7" or if the rear stub axle can't be lowered enough to achieve this then you're in trouble. Assuming you're borderline with enough extension I'd also reccomend shaving your bump stops shorter as you truly need all extension you can. If/when whomever is swapping your springs, if they can shave your bumpstops to 1/2" or 3/4" it'll gain you some slight extra tolerance. Find out what extension the strut is at at your desired 'temporary' ride height. If it's 7" or greater then springs won't work and allow you any susepension droop for safe travel. And if you can find a set of OEM unmolested rear strut tubes you might want to snap them up.....you may be needing them. Hopefully what I wrote is somewhat clear and not just babbles as this is a non-standard approach and I'm seeing what's permissible for your father. Do you have any friends back home that can help your dad out? I'm quite sympathetic to anyone recovering from surgeries etc and car mod's have never been in a recover program I've been through. If enough extension is measured I'll get a set of 12" springs out your way pronto, and if extension & compression is very tight we can bump up the spring rate to minimize travel required to get you thru this jam. A bit of dough but sounds like easiest solution by far. A 300lb/rate would reduce your travel notably (ask Pete et al ) Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Mike, with your rear wheels on, how close do they come to the strut tube? ie. can your adjusting nut drop past/beside your tire and clear easily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Thanks Ross... your really a great guy, and stand by your customers. im going to send my dad your post and ill see if he understands what you said. if not ill ask one of my friends to go over there and help him understand what you said. im hoping everything goes well and all i need is the springs.. IF they dont, do you have any spring perches i can get to weld them on a set of new strut tubes ill get? ill prob need new sleves too because my dad silaconed (sp?) them on so they wouldnt move. thanks again Ross, your a class act! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 with the rear wheel on, the spring perch/adjuster thingy sits right near it, pretty close, but you can fit like a finger inbetween them. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 No worries and you're welcome Mike, I do this because I enjoy knowing cars are being used and thus want products understood and enjoyed while meeting the owner's objectives. Mike's q- do you have any spring perches i can get to weld them on a set of new strut tubes ill get? ill prob need new sleves too because my dad silaconed (sp?) them on so they wouldnt move. yes, yes and yes:) having more 8" 280Z units made this week as they've been popular of late (even a set to Oz last week), can send the usual shorter typical units as well......hushhh about the silicone, that's a trick for MML supported customers they get with install instructions as you know:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 with the rear wheel on' date=' the spring perch/adjuster thingy sits right near it, pretty close, but you can fit like a finger inbetween them. mike[/quote'] That's LOTS of room, seriously, assuming I'm understanding that you have that clearance laterally with adjusting nut beside your tire .....could have had 3/4" to an inch less backspace perhaps (keeping coilovers above your rim tire) but you'll enjoy the wide stance you're building up to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 im sure its abit less then i said but still, i thought it was close but i guess not. i sent ya a email also ross. i guess ill post tomorrow about what my dad measured.. new ross if i move the sleves up the 1.5inchs would this give me even more and better chances that ill be in a safe zone? if so i guess ill just have to find away to get the silacone off the sleve.... can those red sleves take up to 500+ degrees of heat? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 i sent ya a email also ross. i guess ill post tomorrow about what my dad measured.. new ross if i move the sleves up the 1.5inchs would this give me even more and better chances that ill be in a safe zone? if so i guess ill just have to find away to get the silacone off the sleve.... can those red sleves take up to 500+ degrees of heat? mike Mike, I responded to your email....99% certain your struts are definitely too short after reading your 'length removed' response. Raising the tubes will NOT increase strut extension, it could reduce the length of spring required. I'm not clear on heat limits of 6061 aluminum but rotor hats certainly see those temps in some uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Ross i no i no.. im about to shoot myself...... but i sent you a email, and if you cant do it or if i cant afford it then im hoping i can get the strut tubes from somebody on here for cheap and fast.... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 MIke, if possible please get a measurement (or close approximation) of the length of the strut tube (from gland nut down to the cast steel base). I've got shortened rear struts and 17" tires and do not have this problem either, BUT (big BUT) even though my rear inserts are the same length as my fronts (which are shorter than the OEM fronts), I dropped a 2" plug spacer into the bottom of my strut tube to push the insert up 2", so in essence, even though my strut is overall a couple of inches shorter than an OEM tube, it is still 2" longer than it would have been had I cut the tube to match the insert. It sounds to me that your tubes must be pretty short. Ross seems to have a good handle on this situation from his last post (I still do not know how much was removed from your strut tube). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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