Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 the rears are 250 spring rate... and i do have the rubber isolators in there.. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Its a bit hard to work out what is happening here. But it seems from the explanation that the wheels are not the problem, the problem is that the car is riding too low causing the body (wheel arches) to sit on the tyres. If that is the situation, from the photos it appears that the threaded sleeves on the struts are fixed too low and/or the springs are too short. Remedy: relocate the sleeves and/or get longer springs. On the wheels though, I would have thought that to fit 17x10" wheels the wheel arches would have to be flared out to provide the required clearance. To check this, remove the spring from one side (with the car jacked up on stands) and with the wheel on use a jack to move the suspension through its normal travel range. This way you will see whether or not the wheel/tyre hits the wheel arch. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Quite a puzzle you have there. The springs would then compress about 2" or maybe a bit more (unsprung weight is guessed at about 300lbs with wheels, so sprung weight on each wheel shouldn't be much more than 530 or so pounds). I'm guessing the car is very close to equilibrium if the fender wheel openings were not there interfering with the compliance, but even with the future bodywork considered, I think it should be higher than this, even on a lowered vehicle. A piece of schedule 40 pipe (say 1.5" long) cut in half, lengthwise, placed around the strut tube below the threaded tube, and then held in place with a couple of hose clamps could at least get the bodywork off the tires by raising the threaded tube up to the gland nut as a temporary fix to find out where you're at on this. You will for sure want to go with 10" springs, and may want to consider 12" springs if there is a lot of weight on the tires at the point you're currently at. EDIT, You've already replied prior to reading this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I put the front and rear springs on wrong side before (like front on rear and so on) and did something similar to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 im 100% sure there the right springs for the rear.. the 250 ones.. i woulding mind the the 10 in springs... but i was told 10in springs wont fit with my wide wheels.. tahts why i went with the 8in'ers.. i might just get a peice of metal made to space the red sleve up some.. sparkys idea.... and it sounds like it will work.. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I'm guessing here again based on the photos, but the rubber (poly) bump stop looks as though it could be in the location that the strut pushed it up to while the body was on top of the tires. If this is true, the strut has only moved upward about 1.5" (just guessing here). This means that you would need about 1/2" to 1" more lift on the spring to at least get the car's weight on the spring and not on the tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 so a 250 or 275 10in spring will work then? will a 10in spring even work with my wheels? if so ill just order a set now.. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 If you order these springs, and find out they interfer with the tires you'll SPAZ again! The only way you will know that the 10" springs will work (based on your set-up in the photos) is to drop (down-screw) the spring perch 2 inches. Then mount the tires and THEN measure the gap between the spring (or the spring perch being this can be the cause of any interference) and the section width of the tire (move the spring around a little bit because it may not be parallel with the tube being it's unloaded). If the tire is pressed up against the spring, you'll need a wheel spacer. But with your situation, I don't think you'll have much choice on that option. One last thing to consider. Suppose the spring in it's current set-up needs to be only 1" longer just to clear the bodywork. Then a 10" spring will allow you to drop the perch one inch AND just barely clear the bodywork. If you are using a 4" threaded tube, then you will be using the upper 1/3 of the threaded tube. This only allows you to raise the car another 1" if needed before you run out of threaded tube again. But with almost 3" available below the perch, perhaps you may want to consider an 11" or 12" spring instead, thus allowing more flexiblily in raising the car (by positionig the perch midway or lower on the threaded tube). Fortunately for me, I have 6" tubes which allow more flexibility. Also, if the spring clears the tire, but the larger diameter spring perch does hit the section width of the tire or rim, then the longer spring will help you by pushing the perch below the section width or the wheel rim. Just some things to consider before jumping to another purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 well terry im kinda confused from what you said but i think i get it.. ill send what you just said to my dad and pray he gets that. also what if i get 12in springs and lower the spring perch part down past the wheel... it should clear then? or am i just wrong and not getting it... lol mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 ahh so what i said before you edited your post could work... hmm. so with a 12in spring it would lower the spring perch past the wheels rim, thus alowing me to clear the wheel and adding more space. hmm mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Yeah, maybe. You just need to look it over real good before you make that decision. Here is a pic of what I meant by using some schedule 40 pipe as a spacer for a quick-fix to get you going. You just put this under the theaded tube to raise it up a bit if you absolutely need to drive the car. Just make sure the ID of the pipe is as close as possible to the OD of the strut tube, (but not larger). This way you at least won't have to take the springs off, or disassemble anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 hmm sounds like a cheap and easy fix.. could this be driven on for some time or no? i also gotta figure out how much to cut off the fender.... to clear the wheels, and for teh ZG flares. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I'm sure you could just weld it in place as well, but I'm not a big fan of placing the spring so high up on the strut (perhaps my emphasis of putting the weight of the car as low as possible on the strut tube is unwarranted, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 so what would be the best and correct fix then. im with you on having as low on te strut as i can. would i have weld in new sleve perches?.. like make it lower and add a larger sleve? or could i just go with a larger spring on the setup i have now? if your ideas are correct then adding a 12in spring should atleast give me 2in's or play.. not including the metal ill be taking out of the fenders... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Mike, It sucks to hear you having problems again . For what it's worth, my rear suspension is setup similar to yours. Stock isolator up top, 200lb. 8" spring, strut sectioned 1.5"... and going off the pictures taken, the theaded tube is to low. I actually had my threaded tube so high on the strut, I had to cut off 3/16" of it (otherwise I couldn't tighten down the gland nut), so it was flush with the strut housing when the gland nut was off. What you could do that wasn't recomended yet, is buy longer threaded tubes and cut them to length, then you simply remove the old threaded tubes and put on new longer ones. This way, there is no welding involved and you have a lot of adjustability. You can then sell your old threaded tubes to possibly break even on the cost of the new threaded tubes. Do you understand? !M! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 ahh so what i said before you edited your post could work...hmm. so with a 12in spring it would lower the spring perch past the wheels rim' date=' thus alowing me to clear the wheel and adding more space. mike[/quote'] No. The spring diameter is still as much, actually slighly more than the spring lower perch. What Terry was talking about is to lower the perch two inches, mount the wheel back on and see if it touches the spring,(this is w/o putting weight on the wheel). If it clears, then go with the 10 or 12 inch spring and go at it. You can also try putting something under the red adjusting collar to raise it up almost to the gland nut,(the pipe terry was talking about). This will give you another 1.5 inchs or so. Ultimately, it might be a combination of raising the red sleeve and going to a 9 or 10 inch spring. (edit, terry covered what he was talking about) With respect to long term thinking - you need to think about the trip to the engine place. If the wheel is that close to the fender, it will surely hit the fender on bumps during the trip. You may have to cut the fender now. Don't forget that when you cut the rear fender, it is a joining point for the inner and outer sheet metal. So the higher you cut, the bigger the gap, and that is something you will have to "bridge" with some metal to keep the strength of the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik16106 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Has this happened to anyone else using big 17's and coil overs? This is kind of freaking me out a little because mike is running the same thing i was planning on running, or pretty close anyway. Keep us updated man, im sure alot of people would like to know what happened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Has this happened to anyone else using big 17's and coil overs? This is kind of freaking me out a little because mike is running the same thing i was planning on running, or pretty close anyway. Keep us updated man, im sure alot of people would like to know what happened... Quick web reply as a customer just sent me this topic. Mike, I haven't got an email/q on this in any way from you? I appreciate your urgency you've related in this online thread and can relate/it has me reliving some of my own last moment emergencies I've been thru with my car! I feel badly for your dad to be involved with the urgency with his conditions. Anyhow, I don't know how much you ended up sectioning in your rear struts as we didn't discuss that. I do recall a hybridz thread where you'd cut a bit pre-emptively and had strut inserts longer than your struts. I'm v. glad to see you've got that fixed. Regardless of what you've done here we'll get it sorted for you. You do HAVE to allow a path of movement for your wheels and tires! What travel path did you intend them to follow during suspension travel? If ANY of us lowered our car notably (which you did automatically when you sectioned it) AND then placed a wheel/tire combo that's now protruding past your outer fender line then you're most likely going to have an issue. Guys on this forum running 10" rims etc did more work to their ride than just coilovers, clearancing is required. Unless you have a very stiff setup (ie. a race car with slicks and very limited travel) and aren't lowered as much this will occur. Yes one typically sees a gap between the top of their tire and the bottom of their fender on most Z's, but you've sectioned you struts, used 8" springs, but most off all your using 10" wide rims with stock fenders in a 17" OD that have no room for vertical travel with your dropped height. Unless the car is a v. stiff (ie. 400lb/in with slicks/fully reinforced) we need to assume MORE than an inch of susp. compression etc so require wheel travel. What is your overall tire OD? Essentially raising your coilovers at present may only be a temporary solution if in fact you want to be sitting that low. You will require some allowance for wheel travel during suspension function which is not present right now. Their IS some room to raise your rear an additional 3/8" or more from your picture presented. Easiest location to 'shim' this setup to help get you going is at the top of the aluminum hat to stock upper isolator (did you keep the stock upper isolator basically intact??, if the bushing is not their it will drop it further), you can place larger washers, same as I sent you. I wouldn't place more than a half to 3/4" thickness of washers here and they shoujld be of quite similar size to what I originally sent you in case you required a 1/16 to 1/4" adjustment to suit your top OEM isolator. I sense some surprise/nervousness from some who haven't done this before. A few words of caution and in no means directed at Mike. Decide what you objective is overall, then work down and see how the rest of your desired components fit into this objective. Do they match functionality wise and do they geometrically fit up to a make a proper system? One can decide on a desired ride height and thus choose a frame rail clearance to ground for their cars height, pick some repeatable points for these reference measurements. Set your car up on jackstands at this particular height with springs removed and hubs blocked up to appropriate elevation as well. Now you can 'place'/measure for any wheel combo you want and see what clearance you'll have at rest (starting point/checking compression rebound is important but if it's very adequate at rest in the rear particularly, the rest will follow). From centre of hub measure off or make a cardboard template to help you check all clearances. This will also allow you to measure what your strut length is at this time to see if you need to section (vast majority of my coilover customer will all manner of Z rides do not section, rarely required with today's larger OD wheels/tire combos) and what suspension travel this will allow. From that point you can build your struts/coilovers to suit. Back to Mike: your fastest solution to getting on the road (assuming you need to get to Miami and your complete body solution with flares is not to be completed at present) is to fit a simple set of wheels/tires on that clear as it is. Perhaps a cheap used set of OEM early model 300ZX wheels may clear? FWIW, I've gotten caught up in doing various package mods (ie. susp/engine etc) at same time but typically find it best to complete one system at a time. At a minimum your flairs will be required to fit those sweet wheels/tires you have in the rear. What clearance do you have at the rear between your tires/rims and your strut tubes? Is the offset tight to your struts properly to minimize your pushout? Hopefully this reply has been of use to Mike and others. These things can be prevented and I much prefer to be involved in proactive planning than reactive but either way solutions are found. Don't be shy about involving me in any steps you may not be fully confident with. Mike and I discussed to some detail at various points his buildup and the setups I supplied him with are appropriate for his isntall, but their have been large gaps between these discussions where some nix's occurred which we're reacting to. Not picking on you Mike, just don't want others put in fear by efforts and your progession in your buildup. It'll get sorted and many members and perhaps even more importantly, lurkers, have learned many valuable lessons along your buildup from your humble, honest, and open questions/issues you've shared with us all. It's also proven the warmth of hybridz wherein members jump to help out one another. This thread started very early and replies just kept flying in. Good luck and keep us updated, and don't be shy about emailing me:) Most others aren't PS I'm replying via webmail at present so haven't reviewed my correspondence file with Mike to be informed on his overall intent etc. I've setup car with similar rims/struts/coilovers etc previously and one just has to fit it all together as discussed above, we'll get Mike's sorted so he's on the same path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Hey ross. thanks for replying to this thread... i was about to email ya last night but i go to bed early cuz of school.. anyways... i wish i could get a set of wheels an dtires and put them on.. but i dont have any wheels, and my dad cant get any as he's pretty much clueless about Z wheels and etc. if i could get a 12 or 10in spring, and it will work perfect ill do that. im not sure how close the wheels are to teh struts....... i wish i could be there to hellp out more. i no that stock fenders had to be cut a bit.. i just didnt think it would be this bad. and Ross please understand i never thought or said this is because of your parts.. its not, im very happy with your work and service. please understand that... i was and am freaking out, but not because of the parts. the stock rubber isolators are still in there, and i used 3 washers that you have me on each side. the size of the tires are as tall as my stock tires/wheels.. like 25.5ins tall. ... thanks man.. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Just a little more information for you... my car has 10" wide rims but they are 16's instead of 17's, I am running #300 X 12" springs and my tire diameter is 25.2". With this setup I have 1.5" clearance from the top of the tire to the fender (I don't know your offset so your measurements will most likely be different), I have 3/8" clearance between the bulge of the tire and the outer most portion of the spring. This setup gives you very little room for error so follow the advice of the others who have posted about taking accurate measurements. As bad as this may sound to you now remember that after you get the car rolling you will need to insure that your suspension is correct and you are not relying on the quick fixes to keep your car under control while driving. Make sure to RECORD all the measurements that are being taken now so you can referance them when you are ready to complete the fender/suspension work. I have no doubt that this will be nothing more than a lesson learned before long and you will be out driving that nice looking z and giving someone else advice on thier setup. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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