Guest dpiatkin Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Im about to start collecting all my goodies for a FSB engine swap into my 1979 280ZX. I am considering a 1985 5.0 mustang motor, its carb'ed for simplicity and smog, and still gets reasonable mileage for the horse power. Is this a reasonable swap or should I look into a another year for some other advantages in the swap ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 fuel injection somewhat scares me, but.......... any other reasons other than FI please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathogen Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 You live in california and your car is still smog tested so how you pass is up to you, but here is a pretty decent page comparing different year engines. http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/specifications/specs1.htm Make sure you document your swap as I am sure some ZX'ers will be interested in the info. ZX's are already fuel injected so why go carb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 "zero interest..." no kidding ! LOL was interested in staying with a carb for ease of wiring in the install of the 302..... is this not the case ? is the FI fairly straight forward ? Also trying to ease the computer to computer adaptation..... (is it that hard ?) would I still have these problems if I go carb ? The 1985 has good horses and torque with good mileage when compared with other years of 5.0 up until 90's...... would there be any great advantage in going FI other than mileage and drivability ?????? For smog I need only use a newer engine and keep all of that engines smog devices in working order and functioning..... so any motor from 1979 on up will work for smog purposes....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshB 240Z Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Don't be afraid of the EFI. The wiring is simple and straightforward and there are several sites on the internet that will give you a wire by wire explanation of how to install the efi. Ford's factory engine harness (installed on 87-93 Ford Mustangs) is self contained which allows you to pull it out and wire only a few wires into the existing body harness of the ZX without too much grafting between harnesses. You can hook up as few as 6 wires to get the engine running all of the way up to 13 wires to have the engine running plus AC neutral switch and various other functions that you may or may not need. Any wiring problems you run into could be answered by people on this board or on the internet. As a frame of reference, I had my Ford EFI installed, wired and functioning in under two hours. This was in a 240Z which was a little easier than a ZX but it shouldn't be that much more difficult. Also, after smogging several EFI 5.0L's I know that they are fairly clean engines and have a relatively simple smog system as opposed to the vacuum line systems employed on the carb'd models. Lastly, the computers in both applications are tied only to the engine so you will remove the Nissan ECU completely and install only the Ford ECU. No piggyback setup necessary. I am not trying to lead you one way or another, just wanted to clear up some of the myths around EFI wiring. It's very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 is there one particular year that worked better than others, say for clearance issues, ease of install or anything like that ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshB 240Z Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 For the most part the 87-93 engine packages are all the same. There are some smaller differences that may or may not make a difference to you. California cars were equipped with Mass Air sensors in 1988 which is desirable in the Ford circles and the 5.0L's up to 1991 (I believe) have forged pistons. When I buy these engines I try to purchase the 88-90's for this reason. One thing I just learned is that the upper intake manifold on the 94-95 engines is 1.5" shorter than the manifold used on the 87-93 cars. This accounts for the 10hp decrease in 1994-95 cars but may give you a little more hood clearance if it is an issue. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I have just found a 1979 351M. (Carb'ed unfortunately with a tiny 2 barrel "carter") with a C-6 tranny. would this be a reasonable motor to transplant into my "Z" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 it is out of a 1979 Ranchero "Squire" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 is there any weight difference with the 351 ? if so, how much ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshB 240Z Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 It would be a unique install. I'm not sure of any Ford "M" motors swapped into a Z. Those engines were only built for a few years and the aftermarket support is much smaller than the Windsor or Cleveland versions. If I remember correctly, their power to size/weight ratio wasn't very good and they were really a reaction to smog and horsepower requirements of the 1970's (this is from what I have been told). The 5.0L version is so popular because of it's size and power. It's a very compact package for the power and because the 87-93 Mustang was so popular the aftermarket support is large. Also, the engines are easy to come by and range in price from dirt cheap to expensive depending on it's previous life, current condition and modifications. Does anybody else have any info on the 351 and 400M engines? Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 no, the HP is definately toooooo low ! lots of torque but........ also weight and handling is a big concern. drove the ranchero and it is definately gutless and needs a rebuild..... but it would have been free, but like I said weight and handling are big concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Merrifield Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 It would be a unique install. I'm not sure of any Ford "M" motors swapped into a Z. Those engines were only built for a few years and the aftermarket support is much smaller than the Windsor or Cleveland versions. If I remember correctly' date=' their power to size/weight ratio wasn't very good and they were really a reaction to smog and horsepower requirements of the 1970's (this is from what I have been told). The 5.0L version is so popular because of it's size and power. It's a very compact package for the power and because the 87-93 Mustang was so popular the aftermarket support is large. Also, the engines are easy to come by and range in price from dirt cheap to expensive depending on it's previous life, current condition and modifications. Does anybody else have any info on the 351 and 400M engines? Josh[/quote'] Josh is correct. I believe the "M" stood for "modified" and the engine was either a Cleveland or Windsor engine modified for better smog control. Definitely not a hipo motor. I have a 2 bbl 351W in an older Ford panel truck and it's a nice engine that makes quite a bit of power. I think it's rated at 250 HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 If I remember correctly a 351W is about 60lbs more than a 302. A 351M is really a truck motor that too heavy for a Z and has less power than a 351W. I have been told that the M stood for Midland and not modified. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 If i went V8, i would go with a fuel injected Ford block. The distributor is in the front of the engine, making hood latch clearance a sinch, and the motor can sit way back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dpiatkin Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 thanks for the input guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kc280zx Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Bad idea, 1985 motors are crap for the following reason: Pistons are cast, and do not have valve reliefs. 1986 blocks were the first year of fuel injection, good engines, forged pistons however the pistons were not notched for valves, one of the only differences. Stock TRW pistons, great. 1987-1992 Great motors all around, notched forged pistons. 1993-2001 - Hypereuetetic (hyper-you-cracked-it) pistons, ford never looked back. Decent for N/A, but nitrous would be stupid, and ford dosent use any hypercrap pistons for any of their factory boosted cars, so go figure what they think of hypercrap with boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kirkz Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Don't be afraid of the EFI. The wiring is simple and straightforward and there are several sites on the internet that will give you a wire by wire explanation of how to install the efi. Ford's factory engine harness (installed on 87-93 Ford Mustangs) is self contained which allows you to pull it out and wire only a few wires into the existing body harness of the ZX without too much grafting between harnesses. You can hook up as few as 6 wires to get the engine running all of the way up to 13 wires to have the engine running plus AC neutral switch and various other functions that you may or may not need. Any wiring problems you run into could be answered by people on this board or on the internet. As a frame of reference' date=' I had my Ford EFI installed, wired and functioning in under two hours. This was in a 240Z which was a little easier than a ZX but it shouldn't be that much more difficult. Also, after smogging several EFI 5.0L's I know that they are fairly clean engines and have a relatively simple smog system as opposed to the vacuum line systems employed on the carb'd models. Lastly, the computers in both applications are tied only to the engine so you will remove the Nissan ECU completely and install only the Ford ECU. No piggyback setup necessary. I am not trying to lead you one way or another, just wanted to clear up some of the myths around EFI wiring. It's very simple.[/quote'] So, there is no "brain" for the EFI? Ok, I know that I sound like a newb. This is my fifth day reading the information on this site. However it's my 20,000th day thinking about doing this swap..........I really thought that I was the only one who was interested in doing a 5.0 into a Z. As luck would have it, I live in the same city as Alsil, so I hope to get a chance to talk to him in person at some point and see what a finished one looks like. If someone had a link to a site with the electrical on it that would be great. That is the part that scares me the most. Back into the shadows for a while to learn, Kirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathogen Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Kirkz: You probably want to read over Alsil's website, http://zcar.netdojo.com as it has some good info on it relating to the swap. Al is a good guy and I am sure he could answer lots of your questions. However lots of these topics have come up here before, so I would search the Ford Forum. Also unless Al has started another vehicle it is going to be pretty difficult to see his Z in person as it now resides in Vancouver, BC (Im the owner, Al sold the car to me July of 03). There is a "brain" for the EFI, but like JoshB said the wiring is fairly simple. There are several good pages on Mustang EFI, I found http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.htm to be a good resource. Here are some other links I have bookmarked for EFI info. http://www.mustangsplus.com/tech/efi/ http://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/5liter.php http://www.acc-electronics.com/cloud/tc_auto.html http://www.centuryperformance.com/fuel.asp http://users.ev1.net/~gbuzek/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/mstngmtt/Mustang/mustang.htm http://www.painlessperformance.com/manuals/90518m/90518mhome.htm#startmanual http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/06tech/index.html http://members.aol.com/dvandrews/ems.htm http://www.acc-electronics.com/cloud/tc_eec.htm http://www.off-road.com/ford/bigbroncos/tech/massair.html I think I have some more links somewhere, but cant find them. If you have any questions I am sure someone will be able to answer them. There are not too many Ford members so sites like corral.net are a good resource. The 5.0 is a popular engine to swap (not just into Z's) so there is plenty of information on swapping and your Z Specific info can all be found on hybridz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 So, there is no "brain" for the EFI? There is still an ECU. Lastly, the computers in both applications are tied only to the engine so you will remove the Nissan ECU completely and install only the Ford ECU. No piggyback setup necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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