John Scott Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Anyone try this starter with a high comp motor? Trying to figure if it has enough juevos to turn 11:1 over on a regular basis. Pulled 125 amps on the machine, but know way of knowing how it will work until start up day. The sob was expensive. Looking at the gear reduction mini as a alternate. Perf shop employee has it on his 13:1 bigblock...$157.00. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 The late model LT1 starter IS a gear reduction starter. It's pretty neat. Uses a bunch of little planet gears keyed to the armature shaft then rotating inside a sun gear. (I've got one on the bench MOSTLY disassembled, can't find a female torx driver that is small enough. Lisle set available at sears-craftsman doesn't make one-was able to get the brushes out but not the solenoid off. Highly irritating. Has a short in it from corrosion, came out of a boat but was free!)The LT4 is something like 10.5:1 and uses that starter, the LS1 is 11:1 and my guess uses the same motor but different mounting. Should work great. GM performance parts gets $189 for the 168 tooth flywheel starter, but they have the 153 rebuilt for $89! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Tried one on my 383 - sourced it from an Impalla SS application. It never shimmed right and when it would catch to crank it labored. Bought a gear reduction starter from Jegs and it cranks like mad now! Bought one of their cheapies too! Didn't even have to shim the JEg's starter. Keep meaning to E-Bay my LT1 starter but haven't had the chance. Almost no miles on this sucker so if someone else wants to give it a whirl lemme' know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 BLKMGK, Do you feel your starter was unable to perform because it was a weak design? Was your starter a brand new one-or used from a salvage yard? If it was used then it may have been defective to begin with(?). Was your flywheel new? If both your flywheel and starter were used; then possibly the Starter Bendix & flywheel teeth together were worn enough, so much so, that they were out of tolerance. With the advent of the new starter from JEG's your starter bendix brought the two teeth into mesh, within tolerance enough, to solve your problems. Just curious as to why a GM starter was inadequate. Glad you found a starter from JEGs. Did the JEG's starter fit w/out any hassle? Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted September 25, 2002 Author Share Posted September 25, 2002 Cool! I was wondering about the gear reduction with the sub 3" diameter. Most g.r have an offset pinion. I used this on my 4.3, 7.5:1 was pretty easy to spin! Wasn't sure how it would handle the compression & exta 2 cylinders. It was reconditioned when I bought it, maybe I'll try the engine stand test. Come on push rods (arrive tomorrow) and headers ship today!! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Mine was "new" from a local parts house. It just didn't seem to have enough "oomph" when it didn't make awful grinding sounds. Flywheel was a brand new Centerforce, thankfully it doesn't seem to be damaged. The Jeg's starter bolted right up and is nice and SMALL. Don't recall the brand but could probably find it if you would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 If it is the Nippondenso motor (like the one in the 89 Corvette in the JTR manual) it is made by CVR. I have one on each of my trucks. Work great for the $150. I'm hoping to have better luck with the Delco starters as my boat mechanic buddy will give them to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 I've been surfin' the net a little, and it looks like there may have been a couple of different starters. The GM starters I have have a tail piece (about 2" thick) a middle piece (also about 2" thick) and then the nose. The bolts that hold it together run INSIDE the case. This is the gear reduction starter. The other one looks like a regular GM starter with just a steel cap over the back and the bolts that hold it together are OUTSIDE the case. Which one did you have Blkmgk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted September 27, 2002 Share Posted September 27, 2002 OK, got some more starters today. Looks like there aare at least 3 different ones. The multiple stage ones with bolts inside and the mult stage with bolts outside, then the slightly shorter one with just the stamped cover over the end. Be interesting to here which ones people have used and what the successes were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted September 27, 2002 Author Share Posted September 27, 2002 Mine looks just like the picture #7 in the JTR book p. 3-4 seventh ed. Delco 10465293. Seems to have lots of torque. Notice big difference with short cables. Going to run the biggest I can find, Fender solinoid, to starter. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted September 28, 2002 Share Posted September 28, 2002 I make my own cables. Home depot has 2ga welding cable for 90 cents a foot(unbelieveabley fine conductors and really good insulation) and I have a GIANT set of crimpers (designed for wire rope ferrules). Get some lug terminals from the welding section and I use the expensive but nice waterproof battery cable heat shrink from Jegs. In my experience, the fender mounted solenoid is not needed with a gear reduction solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Not sure which I ended up with, will take a look in the garage if I think of it tomorrow and maybe snap a pic... P.S. Didn't know that Home Depot carried welding cable - Cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I got out the JTR book to look at your starter. According to them, number 7 is a heavy duty GEAR REDUCTION starter. Most of the ones I have are like number 3 in the photo. The number 3 is available with both noses (straight and angled bolts) for both flywheels. My '96 LT1 came with a starter like that. I don't know if it was the original or not, but with only 30k miles on it I assumed it was, but who knows? I bought the starter that looks like #8 for both of my trucks. Cast iron bellhousings have a bellhousing mount starter like the Datsun and the regular nose won't go in the hole. The books says it won't work on the V8 Datsun, but doesn't somebody here have that one? Also, the JTR manual (the bible, right?) says that #3 and #7 are the best of all the starters. I am assuming that yours is just worn out? Brushes and a new solenoid should fix it right up. I took two apart and combined the pieces last week to get it working. I am going to put it on my camaro eventually and will post results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted October 3, 2002 Author Share Posted October 3, 2002 Originally posted by Mike C:I got out the JTR book to look at your starter. According to them, number 7 is a heavy duty GEAR REDUCTION starter...Also, the JTR manual (the bible, right?) says that #3 and #7 are the best of all the starters. I am assuming that yours is just worn out? Brushes and a new solenoid should fix it right up. I took two apart and combined the pieces last week to get it working. I am going to put it on my camaro eventually and will post results. My starter has only a few hundred miles, bought it when I switched to my 6 speed. The JTR book probably assumes a stock 350 will be going in to most conversions. My #7 starter doesn't turn 11:1 383 compression very well. Slow and steady, but not like I'd expect. The mini, like I said was much, much stronger. Maybe there was a problem with mine from the start, as it was new/reconditioned, not new from Chevy. Just never showed up with the low compresion 4.3. Hope you have better success. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Me too! Fortunately mine are the #3 starters, same ones they used on the 454's. I figure the 9.5;1 pressure from the 454 is equal to the 11:1 of the 383 since it is spread over a larger surface area. I;m glad yours is working well now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 Not satisfied with my 93-96 starter. Marginal cranking. Sucked up and got the Mini. Using the same wiring, no comparison, the mini does a better job, period. The gear reduction used less power, but I still like the fender solinoid. No question if the power is going to both starter and solinoid, and eliminates one wire where I can't get to it easily. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Finally, here are some pics of the GM gear reduction starters I have. I have had a couple apart, and the one from a 4 cylinder is for 168 tooth flywheel but has a different gear ratio, the plastic sun gear was even ruined on this one. The smallest cased starter 2nd from the right is the 4 banger one. The starter on far left is 168 tooth and the far right is same starter with 153 tooth nose. The second starter from left is a different style one for the 168 tooth flywheel. In the exploded view, the plastic piece attached to the bendix is the sun gear. The planets revolve around it and the armature shaft. The self-contained brush assembly has a Craftsman socket in it to hold the brushes in their holders with springs compressed. Learned how to do THAT the hard way also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 The LT1 starter is pretty good, but I am using an LT4 aka Vette starter (meaning came on the LT1 Vette also), since the LT1 unit cracked (Camaro LT1 that is). I think it was $159 new, no core charge, from a dealership in Florida. No problems at 11.4:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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