Calling all BEGI/Cartech FMU users, UPDATE answer found

[Guest bastaad525]

Hey all... I just installed my BEGI FMU, and was wondering about the setting of the bleed screw. Though I do have a fuel pressure gauge, it's mounted in the engine bay, so I can't really see what fuel pressure is getting up to on boost. It would be a real hassle at this point to rig some way of getting that gauge inside the car, and unfortunately, I'm still a little short on cash, so it may be a little while before I can get to a dyno to tune it on the wideband.

 

At any rate, I know this FMU has a pretty wide range of adjustment... I"ve heard/read that it can cover anywhere from about 1:1 (bleed screw all the way out) to about 11:1 (all the way in, about four full turns from fully out, according to the rep at BEGI). However... I have no idea how linear of a progression the adjustment is, so was hoping I could glean a little from you guys who've been using the unit for a while. After doing some math (equations provided courtesy of Sean73 ) I figure I need to run a total of about 60-65psi of fuel pressure, at full boost WOT with the boost reference connected to the unit, to get the amount of fuel I need for the boost I'm running and amount of power I"m trying to support (12-13psi on a stock T3, aiming for about 230hp to the wheels). To get that fuel pressure I need to run about a 2:1 rising rate (40psi base fuel pressure at 0 vac/boost, 12psi of boost x 2psi of fuel = 24psi + 40psi base = 64psi total fuel pressure). So, about how far out (or in) should I adjust the bleed screw to achieve a 2:1 rate? I'm figuring I need about one full turn from fully out. That sound about right or am I way off?

[240zprace]

bastaad525, i've been using the fmu for couple of years and running 35lb injectors on it., t3t04e turbo, fmic, 79 ecu & harness, aeromotive adjustable fpr..... at idle my pressure is 31 psi and w/ fmu leaned out all the way, at wot full boost 15 psi the fuel press at 70 psi...... 3 turns in w/ race gas is good for 18 psi. you'll never hear your car detonate... ake me more if you need more info.....

[240zprace]

pm me and give me your phone # if you wish to talk to me about it

[yo2001]

Don't forget to install the retrictor on signal line and a check valve on the bleeder line. my 2 cents

[Guest bastaad525]

240zprace - so with the bleed screw all the way out it's already at about 2:1? I'll try setting it there and see how she does. I MIGHT be able to get to the dyno this week and fine tune it

 

yo2001 - yeah you're not the first person to mention the restrictor to me... what purpose does it serve and why do I need to use it? I know I have to run the check valve. I saw those items listed for sale seperately alongside the FMU itself, but was told they are also included with every FMU.

[yo2001]

the resictor will keep the boost signal clean basically rather than too much air going into the FMU when the engine is going into boost. Without it, you can get a stumble, miss under partial throttle.

[Guest bastaad525]

Yep you called it... car ran like crap w/o the restrictor! Nasty stumble when boost came on. Actually... it didn't only run like crap at partial throttle, or when boost was just coming on, even once full boost hit at WOT and I held it it felt really bad, bogging pretty nasty. Installed the restrictor and the car seems to run perfect on boost or off. I'm still looking for a good baseline adjustment for the thing. Trying to get an appointment at a dyno, but everyone is booked til next week or later. So I have no idea what the fuel pressure is running under boost. I set the bleed screw on the FMU one turn in from fully out. The BEGI rep was wrong, it actually has a range of almost five full turns, from fully out to in, not four. I'm gonna guess I set the rate of gain too high. But, better too rich than too lean. The car feels great though after installing the restrictor, but then again, it felt great w/o the FMU, and I know for a fact it was running too lean before. Anyways, at WOT/full boost and also at part throttle/low boost, I don't notice any bogging or loss of power power, or really any indication that it's running too rich at any point, which is great news for me... I fully expected partial throttle/boost driving to be negatively impacted by the FMU. I gotta take pics of my install of this thing by the way I actually bolted it onto the side of the intake manifold, right above the turbo, if it weren't for the fact that it is so nice and shiny and new looking, it would look like it was on there from the factory. I also hope that having it right above the turbo isn't going to cause problems from heat like maybe vapor lock or something... I guess I'll find out soon enough.

 

I got to test the new parts against some riced out mid-late 90's mustang GT tonite.... spun the tires all thru first and chirped hard into second and blew his doors off... at the next light the guy wanted to know what it was... he didn't look too happy when I told him a 2.8L straight six

 

 

So come on guys... any other guys using this FMU and can confirm for me where to set the thing to get 2:1 rate of gain/65ish psi of fuel pressure at WOT full boost? 240zprace's does it with the screw set fully out... can someone else chime in here?

[cygnusx1]

Bast. I wish I could tell you how mine is set but:

 

1) For two weeks, I havent had a good weather day to get the Z out of the shed. (I hate NY August weather)

2) I have no fuel map to correlate with the bleed screw on the Begi.

 

Those bleed adjusters are not so precise that you can reliably count adjuster turns and have them all flow the same. The best way to get and index on them is to feed the FMU a known pressure from a compressor and log the resulting fuel pressure. This way you can build a "map" and put marks on the bleed screw knob. Try to get some "reference" marks on the knob before you get to the dyno.

[240zprace]

bastaad525, what model did you get., 2022 or 2025???? i believe the 2025 is for na cars turned to turbo and 2022 is for oem turbo cars, right? your car has the turbo block/head/injectors, right? if you bought the 2025, you'ld want to take out the spring on top of the fmu where the allen screw and lock nut is. don't use the spring. if you got the 2022 , it shouldn't come with it. the 2025 fmu came with this because it's for na cars turned to turbo cars. it's to add fuel b4 boost. .. i got the 2025 fmu and had to take out the spring on it after speeking to bell corkey (owner of bell tech). and i also don't use the restrictor

on the signal line. with fmu leaned out all the way w/ 35lb injectors, 31psi on fpr at idle, at fullboost i get 70 psi fuel pressure. if you z was bogging under boost, you were probably to rich. turn the adj knob all the way out and if you got the 2025 fmu, take out the spring or loosened the lock nut and back out the allen screw almost all the way out, then tightened up the locknut.

[Guest bastaad525]

Yeah I got the 2025... I had gone back and forth with the sales rep there about which one to get. Oddly, I thought we had finally settled on the 2022, but he ended up sending me the 2025. The rep there was also going back and forth with Corky Bell as we were on the phone and yeah he warned me about the onset screw and the spring tension on the 2025. He advised me that I could just back the adjustment screw out until I felt it lose tension, which would mean it was backed off the spring completely and would then function as a 2022. He said another way to check this was to run the car at idle, with no reference line connected to the FMU, and check that fuel pressure was running at the stock level, and if not to back the screw out until it hit the stock pressure, and then back it off another half turn or so, which coincidentally, is right about when I could feel the tension release meaning the screw was all the way off the spring. Corky had also mentioned that I would most likely have to run the restrictor as well, otherwise fuel pressure would rise too soon (at partial boost). When I tried running w/o the restrictor, even with the bleed screw and onset screw backed all the way out, the car still bogged badly and ran like crap... so I don't think not using the restrictor is gonna work for me.

 

Still trying desperately to find a dyno I can test at asap, will hopefully have something to report soon. Still leaving the thing adjusted one turn in in the meantime... I hope that's not too high.

 

 

Cygnus - on the contrary, the guys at BEGI seem fairly confident that the bleed settings are very consistent between units and are very linear in progression. Well, that's what they say, anyways. I too doubt any bleed device can be very accurate but then again, why not, if the tapered needles are ground very precisely. I WISH I had a compressor so I could test mine as you do yours... and yeah I do mark everything nowadays so I can see exactly how many turns or how much adjustment of whatever it takes to get whatever! Boost controller, idle setting, fuel setting, AFM spring tension setting... I carry a damn Sharpie marker with me at all times now just in case, and don't adjust anything w/o marking it first!

[Guest bastaad525]

Well I found a dyno close by. I gotta call the guy back but it looks like I may be able to get tested today, and get this FMU tuned. He runs a dynapack dyno, as opposed to the dynojet I've been using up until now. The good news is I just read an article in last months SCC magazine where they tested a bunch of different dynos and found that the dynapacks and dynojets do read pretty closely, so the numbers should still be informative.

 

Going from my last pulls at the corvette place, I'm betting on 220-230hp to the wheels and 270-290lb feet of torque.

[Guest bastaad525]

For the record, it took three full turns on on the bleed screw on my FMU, to get about 2:1 rate of gain and about 65psi of fuel pressure at full boost. A lot more than I expected... looks like they do NOT all behave the same.

[Cody 82 ZXT]

Glad you got it to work right for you. I used to run one for several years and it worked good for me. I didn't add anything when you were asking about it since I couldn't really add any real facts other than how it effected my car. What I wanted to say here is that just like a manuel boost controller this thing will also be effected by weather tempature and so forth. So if you have it set one way for the summer it will need to be changed again when the weather changes. After you've used it for awhile you 'll be able to make adjustments very easy to what the weather is outside. Just wanted to put out an FYI

[510six]

I was discussing possible solutions with 240zprace ,to the problem of most FMU`s running very rich at high boost levels and having a limited ability to tune it.The one option is a stand alone FI system SDS ect or using a Jim Wolf 450HP VG30 compter plug and play. My solution after a bit of thought would be a dry N20 system activated at 10psi or so with a Hobb switch.The plumbing and electrical would be relativly simple and the extra fuel could be made to serve a really usefull purpose...extra HP.Not to mention the intercooling effect of N20 and the ability to tune for optimun Hp with a wideband and a few nitrous jets.

[Guest bastaad525]

Glad you got it to work right for you. I used to run one for several years and it worked good for me. I didn't add anything when you were asking about it since I couldn't really add any real facts other than how it effected my car. What I wanted to say here is that just like a manuel boost controller this thing will also be effected by weather tempature and so forth. So if you have it set one way for the summer it will need to be changed again when the weather changes. After you've used it for awhile you 'll be able to make adjustments very easy to what the weather is outside. Just wanted to put out an FYI

 

Oh GAWWWWWWWWWWWD... you're kidding me right??? Man so what I'll have to dyno twice a year now??? I GOT to get me my own wide band... *sigh* and I notice that BEGI sells rebuild kits... wtf? Rebuild kits for a FPR?? how long do they go between rebuilds?? How do I know when they are due, when I suddenly hole a piston from running way too lean at 13psi when the FMU gives up the ghost w/o warning? heheh okay so I'm jesting a little... well I dont worry TOO much about the weather thing, as here in SoCal we barely even get real 'seasons'... we get summer... and... rainy season... and that's about it. Well hopefully I can talk my wife into getting me a wideband by or for xmas and then none of this will be a problem any more. Also need to work on getting a fuel pressure gauge in-car.

[Cody 82 ZXT]

At this rate your dynoing atleast once a month so that shouldn't be a proublem. J/K Anyway, I think you'll be able to work through any weather changes without having to hit the dyno each time. Here in Texas it could be 80 or 90 degrees and then the next day be almost freezing when a cold front comes through. It's confusing to all of us as well as the car. Ofcourse two or three days later the temp will be back upto normal.

 

I say get the Wideband and you'll have all ya need.

[cygnusx1]

Bast, so you did get it back to another Dyno after the corvette place? What were the A/F numbers like and what were the RWHP and RWT numbers like this time with the FMU and 65psi fuel at what boost. Don't leave us hanging...

 

By the way I took my friend out for a spin in my Z. He drives a Stage 3 WRX wagon dynoed about 300 Flywheel HP. After the ride he said that my Z would blow the doors off his Stage 3 WRX.

[Cody 82 ZXT]

 

By the way I took my friend out for a spin in my Z. He drives a Stage 3 WRX wagon dynoed about 300 Flywheel HP. After the ride he said that my Z would blow the doors off his Stage 3 WRX.

 

My friend has a WRX with 275 to the wheels and I beat him by 8 MPH in the 1/4. We were both surprised. Heck of a fun car though. Those AWD launches are neat.

[Guest bastaad525]

Bast' date=' so you did get it back to another Dyno after the corvette place? What were the A/F numbers like and what were the RWHP and RWT numbers like this time with the FMU and 65psi fuel at what boost. Don't leave us hanging...

 

By the way I took my friend out for a spin in my Z. He drives a Stage 3 WRX wagon dynoed about 300 Flywheel HP. After the ride he said that my Z would blow the doors off his Stage 3 WRX.[/quote']

 

 

Yep, I went down to the dyno the next day to get it tuned. I posted a thread with the results... got no love this time though, only fl327 bothered to post a reply though lots of people did at least view the topic Well here is the thread so you can 'read all about it':

 

http://hybridz.org/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=36379

 

The A/F ratio was erratic as always, with a big rich dip at about 3500rpm, and then getting a bit leaner and leaner as revs climbed, BUT I dont' blame this on the FMU, even when I had dynoed several times before the FMU, the stock EFI ALWAYS had a super rich spot at that RPM, and started to lean out after 4500rpm or so. Anyways, the FMU did exactly what I needed it to do, got the fuel mixtures nice and safe... unfortunately not so flat of an A/F curve, but safe, ranging from mid 11's to mid 12:1 range. The car feels great, a little down on power though but I expected that... better rich and safe than faster and lean. I did get to make up for a bit of the lost power though by bumping the timing back up. I'd been running my timing at 17* BTDC to help add some safety, knowing I was probably a bit lean before the FMU. With the extra fuel I decided to bump timing back up to stock. Unfortunately I didn't think to do this while I was at the dyno, so I have no idea how much difference it made, but I will say, I always feel BIG differences when moving the timing around on this setup.

 

The dyno was really a landmark for me, as I finally reached (well, ALMOST reached) my goal, to get as much power as I possibly can out of my stock T3 and injectors, and doing so safely. I originally had targeted 250hp at the wheels, but found that to really do that with stock injectors via raised fuel pressure would be a bit too much pressure, so I set my goal to 230hp to the wheels. Having hit very close to that mark, I was very pleased... I am 99% positive I'll get the rest of the way there once I throw out this crappy 2.5" crush bent exhaust for a REAL exhaust, if I didn't already get there with the 3* of extra timing.

 

The only thing bugging the heck outta me now is the much more pronounced boost spiking. Having set the boost to 12psi, I get spikes to about 14psi and occasionnaly (if I punch it while already at a higher rpm) up to 15psi, and I dont like that at all. For one because I dont know if the fuel is covering that much boost, for two I imagine the fuel pressure is getting way to high during those spikes, and for three, you can FEEL the power surge as boost jumps up and then back down... very annoying. I dunno if it's an issue with the grainger valve boost controller just sucking at this boost level or what.