280zx turbo vs chevy v8

[Guest Z-rific]

I've got an Olds 455 behind my garage. I think that would be an interesting swap too, I just dont have the funds or fabrication capabilities to try it.

 

I also have a 69 Rocket 350 sitting right next to it.

[Guest SlateFox]

so how much hp can a turbo engine put out with mods and performance upgrades?

[HICKL]

Chris Turbo as I call him had around 300 rwh with his old setup and has gone much bigger with his new setup which has not been tested yet. I forget his name but someone on here just broke into the 10's with a turbo L6. I would think that is in the 400hp+ range right?

 

If you are very talented and have access to all the stuff you need, a 350 swap will probably cost you at least $2500 by the time you get a decent tranny, exhaust system etc.

 

Hope this helps.

[Heavy Z]

I've got an Olds 455 behind my garage. I think that would be an interesting swap too' date=' I just dont have the funds or fabrication capabilities to try it.

 

I also have a 69 Rocket 350 sitting right next to it.[/quote']

 

I think those two are really close in weight, I know the 455 is only 50 lbs more than a chevy. And unlike the caddy, you can get aluminum heads for the olds. Someone swapped in a rocket 350 some time last year, were you in on that discussion? Maybe he has the blueprints on file for the mounts. A 455 in a Z would be superb IMO, provided you could harness the torque.

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

An olds 455 is 1" wider, 1" taller, and 80lbs heavier than an all-iron Chevy 350. There's a guy local to me that has an Olds 350 in his 280Z, and he originally had a 455 in it. He spun a rod bearing on the 455 and bolted the 350 in. They bolt up the same. I have the specs for a budget 455 buildup that dynoed at 503hp/572tq, all under 5500rpm. Aside from the typical bolt-ons, you have to do some oil mods to make a 455 hold up to high HP.

 

I'll try to catch the guy at his fabrication shop tomorrow and ask him if you has specs for the mounts or if he'll make copies. He offered to GIVE me the 455 if I'll haul it off.

 

He originally told me something about using motor mounts from an 80's Chevy pickup with an Olds diesel engine. Maybe he adapted them to Scarab mounts.

 

Also, you CAN get aluminum heads for a Caddy 500 from The Cad Company and another company that I think is in Lakeland FL and is called MTS.

[Guest SlateFox]

so the average hp i can get out of a turbo with mods and performance upgrades would be about 280-330? thats what ive heard/read...

[Heavy Z]

An olds 455 is 1" wider, 1" taller, and 80lbs heavier than an all-iron Chevy 350.

 

I just checked and according to this we're both wrong, sbc 575 lbs and olds 455 at 605 lbs. 30 lbs for an extra 105 cubic inches of muscle, nice tradeoff.

 

http://carnut.com/specs/fengdim.html

 

Thanks for the caddy heads-up, and the info on the mounts.

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

You'll see different specs on the 'net, but I remember when I worked for an auto parts store I had a buddy with an Olds Cutlass that needed an engine, so I called the freight company to get the shipped weights and it was 80lbs more for the Olds 455 than for a Chevy 350. It could have been wrong, though. The firm conclusion is that an Olds 455 is lighter than a Chevy BB. The 305 and other small bore engines were heavier than the 350, due to more material and smaller holes. The 1" wider and 1" taller spec that I quoted was actually in regard to the Olds 350 vs the Olds 455, NOT the Chevy 350. That info was told to me by the guy with the Olds-engined 280Z. I'll post on here as soon as I talk to him. I haven't talked to him in 2 years, so I don't know if he still has the car or not. It was for sale for $2500, but it was a 2+2 so I passed on it.

[dr_hunt]

Olds had cast rods, the 5500 rpm limit is an absolute maximum unless you want to window the block and empty the pocketbook. They all had 2 bolt blocks, some 425's and 455's had steel cranks, hard to find though. They need alot of cleanup in the oil passage to main bearing area to get them to work. There are several version of stock heads, only one is really performance oriented and came on at least the 455 Rocket series. Has larger valves and better ports.

 

David

[deMideon]

The other thing to think about is that when you build the L-6 turbo for 400hp you are seriously decreasing the reliability of the engine. That's why I went for the 377... I have 450hp and a reliable engine. I can also inclrease the HP when I want to!

[vega]

Au contraire - the Caddy engine would fit quite nicely - not much bigger than the 350...

 

Yesss, the caddy 500 and the olds 455 are the wave of the future.*

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

*a very biased pitch, I just want to see one done.

 

Well who carries the kit, i want to avoid fabrication. That is why I like the idea of the sbc.

 

side not: The olds engine is a good engine BUT the caddy 500 weighs less and is WAY more powerful, and plenty of performance parts for them. The GOOD big blocks go as order for Gm (old cars) the the 427 out of that corvette in 70' that had 460 horse( screw this unlss you have 80 gs - just not worht it its also ungodly rare), caddy 500 i already metioned this (I can also pick one up for about 200 bucks btw), the buick 455 out of the 70' gsx the, olds 455 out of the 68 4-4-2, and the 454 out of the 70' chevelle ss.

 

Ok read up on the caddy you can get aluminum everything for it except the block (READ MORE) there are alot of ignorant people when it come sto this engine. Here is basic view on this engine.

---------------------------------------

70' caddy 500 out of an eldorado

about 425 hp

530 torque @ 2500 (almost idel)

$200

with JUST and aluminum intake only 40lbs heavier than a sbc that means it IS the lightest old school big block.

Plenty of parts

easy to find

lost of Perfomance parts -not as expensive as people think, but how much power is needed here-my god.

and teh 240 z only weighs 2300 pounds so if this was in this car this is NOT a daily car with just the stock engine remember it only takes about 320hp for this car to pull low 12s.

in a 4800 pound caddy it got 12 mpg on the hiway and about 8 in the city I would guess this would get about 20 on the hyway and 15 in the city if you care about MPG (i do other wise i would just build a buick gsx with a caddy 500 swap and pull stock 13s- a 70 gsx with a less powerful and hevier motor pulled 13.8s stock)

 

So in short as long as it will fit with little pain this is the PERFECT motor out of old school muscle. just my 2 cents...maybe 3.

 

--------------------

Hey if there is a kit oh hell yeah I'll do it. Still no answer though the vg30dett out of a 92' or so 300zxtt or the 350 out of say a 68' camaro ss - that is if there is no kit

[vega]

An olds 455 is 1" wider' date=' 1" taller, and 80lbs heavier than an all-iron Chevy 350. There's a guy local to me that has an Olds 350 in his 280Z, and he originally had a 455 in it. He spun a rod bearing on the 455 and bolted the 350 in. They bolt up the same. I have the specs for a budget 455 buildup that dynoed at 503hp/572tq, all under 5500rpm. Aside from the typical bolt-ons, you have to do some oil mods to make a 455 hold up to high HP.

 

I'll try to catch the guy at his fabrication shop tomorrow and ask him if you has specs for the mounts or if he'll make copies. He offered to GIVE me the 455 if I'll haul it off.

 

He originally told me something about using motor mounts from an 80's Chevy pickup with an Olds diesel engine. Maybe he adapted them to Scarab mounts.

 

Also, you CAN get aluminum heads for a Caddy 500 from The Cad Company and another company that I think is in Lakeland FL and is called MTS.[/quote']

 

What do you mean they bolt the same?

 

Also the car pic in your post is that yours? If so where did you get that body kit from? Web site please...

[Brad-ManQ45]

http://www.westechperformance.com/pages/Tech_Library/Popular_Engine_Specs/dimensions.html

 

 

I'm thinking Buick Stage II 455 w/aluminum heads - a little wider than Olds but narrower than Caddy, all other dimensions same or smaller than Olds or Caddy.

 

Stage I's were AWSOME - the Stage II heads were INCREDIBLE!

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

What do you mean they bolt the same?

 

Also the car pic in your post is that yours? If so where did you get that body kit from? Web site please...

 

The Olds 307/350/403/425/455 all bolt up to the same motor mounts. The blocks are basically the same only the larger ones have a slightly taller deck height, and therefore are also slightly wider at the top of the "V".

 

In other words, you can take a car with an Olds 307 and bolt in an Olds 455. Also,any engine swap that uses 73-87 Chevy truck motor mounts can be swapped over to an Olds BB simply by using motor mounts from a 73-87 Chevy Truck with the optional Olds diesel engine.

 

The car is mine (my wife's, actually). It doesn't have a body kit. It has a "GT" fiberglass air dam from Arizona Z Car, $180. The rear wing is a hand made aluminum one-off.

 

We also have another 240Z and 2 280ZX's, but they're all junk.

 

About the 500, the '70 Eldo 500 was rated at 400hp/575tq according to the Chilton guide, but with ported heads, a cam, intake/carb, headers, and good tuning you can easily get 600/600 in street form. The easiest way to have a powerful 500 is to take a basically stock motor and throw a 250hp shot of nitrous on it. They can handle it. The parts for the 500 are more expensive than a SBC, but it's still possible to build a cheap one. It's a nice alternative. I might try to put one in my "other" 240Z, but I have so many projects that I don't know if I'll ever get around to it. I just sold a '78 Eldo with a 425 in it to a guy who's putting the engine in a Ford F-150 for towing. My Eldo weighed 5500lbs empty and was stock except exhaust and advanced timing, and it ran low 16's at 83mph. It was a torquey beast.

[Scottie-GNZ]

About the 500, the '70 Eldo 500 was rated at 400hp/575tq according to the Chilton guide, but with ported heads, a cam, intake/carb, headers, and good tuning you can easily get 600/600 in street form. ........ My Eldo weighed 5500lbs empty and was stock except exhaust and advanced timing, and it ran low 16's at 83mph. It was a torquey beast.

Please don't get caught up in the hyped-up, over-inflated HP numbers from cars in that era. Those were gross HP numbers mostly derived from the dyno with no accessories or from the heads of marketeers, some of whom did not even have the sense to not round up the numbers. 16.25 @ 83 in 5700lb car (gas and driver) equates to ~255 RWHP or ~ 305 at the flywheel.

 

If someone wants to put one of these in a Z to be unique, that's fine, but to think with some mods you have a 600hp hybridZ is far from real. IMHO, a Z with a well-tuned modern-day LS1 or even LT1 will outperform a Z with one of these stock monster Caddy or Tornado, et al big block lumps.

[vega]

Ok chiltons tells what the factory numbers were tha motor was underweighted .

 

Yes they were gross HP but I have that motor sorry dynoed out at 430 at the flywheel.

 

Remmeber we are getting a car that weighs 4800 pounds to move and go 135 mph.

 

I look into that 455 old motor though thanks.

 

Also by the way I belive the cutlass whent about 100 less horse than said before some tme durrning mid 70s for insurance reasons. so alot of those motors from the 70s were underrated remember this.

 

Seeing you are saying there is not alot of fab fro 455 hey I'll go with that I already copied your post and looking into it.

 

If you don't mind how much did you spend roughly for just the motor swap. You buy the JTR kit/guid?

[vega]

Um still no post to the vg30dett though... what kind of MPG would I get setting the PSi to 4# when this engine is in say a 70' 240z -what do you all think? (I know this is the v8 forum sorry)

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

Please don't get caught up in the hyped-up' date=' over-inflated HP numbers from cars in that era. Those were gross HP numbers mostly derived from the dyno with no accessories or from the heads of marketeers, some of whom did not even have the sense to [u']not[/u] round up the numbers. 16.25 @ 83 in 5700lb car (gas and driver) equates to ~255 RWHP or ~ 305 at the flywheel.

 

If someone wants to put one of these in a Z to be unique, that's fine, but to think with some mods you have a 600hp hybridZ is far from real. IMHO, a Z with a well-tuned modern-day LS1 or even LT1 will outperform a Z with one of these stock monster Caddy or Tornado, et al big block lumps.

 

You estimated 255whp/305 gross on my Eldorado with a 425... NOT a 500. According to the same Chilton guide that claimed the '70 500 was rated at 400hp/550tq, my '78 Eldo 425 is rated at 180hp/260tq, a far cry from 255whp. So clearly, my 425 was underrated. Now, I'm not saying that means the 500 was underrated, too, because I'm aware that the accepted HP rating methods changed in 1972, but I have two sources supporting the high HP status of the '70 500: a 1970 issue of Motor Trend showing a '70 Eldo running a high 15 second 1/4 (on stock POS 1970 tires) in the mid/upper 80mph range (I don't have the actual numbers on hand because the magazine is at a librarty 30 minutes away). I know without the actual trap speed its hard to make a HP estimate, but I DO know it was higher than my 83 mph... probably more like 86-87mph, and it takes a lot of power to pick up 3-4mph trap speed in a 5500lb car.

 

My second source is a bit more clear:

 

I have a PDF document from "The Cad Company" detailing the ACTUAL HP from a '70 500 that I'll post you an excerpt from, edited for length:

 

The base engine for the test mule is essentially built to ‘70 Eldorado specs, at 10:1 compression and with all OE replacement or actual OE parts.

 

Bone stock it pulled 323 HP and 504 Ft-Lb of torque. This was on 93 octane pump gas with retarded timing to compensate. The stock compression (10:1 or 10.5:1) combined with the cam specs, create high cylinder pressures that require high octane (preferably leaded) fuel. We stuck to pump gas, so to reduce cylinder pressure we chose a fairly hairy street/strip cam to lower cylinder pressures.

 

When we added a few parts to the mix, things got interesting:

 

Edelbrock intake manifold

Sanderson shorty headers

Holley 1050 Dominator carb

P/C 625 cam (requires 2500rpm stall converter)

PC7 oil pan with windage tray

 

We got 537 HP at 5600 RPM and

611 Ft-Lbs at 4000 RPM

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Looks to me like that's a pretty good motor for just about any street machine. BTW, they also weighed the motor and decked out in all-iron it was 60lbs more than an all-iron SBC. I'm a "Chevy guy", so there's no need for you to preach the virtues of the SBC to me, but at the same time you can't dispute the numbers the Cad 500 puts out, especially with the added benefit of the light weight, agreed?

 

As for the Olds 455, I have a buildup from Hot Rod where they got 503hp/575tq with cam/heads/intake/header, along with significant durability mods. It's a lot lighter than a BBC, too.

[vega]

Please don't get caught up in the hyped-up' date=' over-inflated HP numbers from cars in that era. Those were gross HP numbers mostly derived from the dyno with no accessories or from the heads of marketeers' date=' some of whom did not even have the sense to [u'']not[/u] round up the numbers. 16.25 @ 83 in 5700lb car (gas and driver) equates to ~255 RWHP or ~ 305 at the flywheel.

 

If someone wants to put one of these in a Z to be unique, that's fine, but to think with some mods you have a 600hp hybridZ is far from real. IMHO, a Z with a well-tuned modern-day LS1 or even LT1 will outperform a Z with one of these stock monster Caddy or Tornado, et al big block lumps.

 

You estimated 255whp/305 gross on my Eldorado with a 425... NOT a 500. According to the same Chilton guide that claimed the '70 500 was rated at 400hp/550tq, my '78 Eldo 425 is rated at 180hp/260tq, a far cry from 255whp. So clearly, my 425 was underrated. Now, I'm not saying that means the 500 was underrated, too, because I'm aware that the accepted HP rating methods changed in 1972, but I have two sources supporting the high HP status of the '70 500: a 1970 issue of Motor Trend showing a '70 Eldo running a high 15 second 1/4 (on stock POS 1970 tires) in the mid/upper 80mph range (I don't have the actual numbers on hand because the magazine is at a librarty 30 minutes away). I know without the actual trap speed its hard to make a HP estimate, but I DO know it was higher than my 83 mph... probably more like 86-87mph, and it takes a lot of power to pick up 3-4mph trap speed in a 5500lb car.

 

My second source is a bit more clear:

 

I have a PDF document from "The Cad Company" detailing the ACTUAL HP from a '70 500 that I'll post you an excerpt from, edited for length:

 

The base engine for the test mule is essentially built to ‘70 Eldorado specs, at 10:1 compression and with all OE replacement or actual OE parts.

 

Bone stock it pulled 323 HP and 504 Ft-Lb of torque. This was on 93 octane pump gas with retarded timing to compensate. The stock compression (10:1 or 10.5:1) combined with the cam specs, create high cylinder pressures that require high octane (preferably leaded) fuel. We stuck to pump gas, so to reduce cylinder pressure we chose a fairly hairy street/strip cam to lower cylinder pressures.

 

When we added a few parts to the mix, things got interesting:

 

Edelbrock intake manifold

Sanderson shorty headers

Holley 1050 Dominator carb

P/C 625 cam (requires 2500rpm stall converter)

PC7 oil pan with windage tray

 

We got 537 HP at 5600 RPM and

611 Ft-Lbs at 4000 RPM

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Looks to me like that's a pretty good motor for just about any street machine. BTW, they also weighed the motor and decked out in all-iron it was 60lbs more than an all-iron SBC. I'm a "Chevy guy", so there's no need for you to preach the virtues of the SBC to me, but at the same time you can't dispute the numbers the Cad 500 puts out, especially with the added benefit of the light weight, agreed?

 

As for the Olds 455, I have a buildup from Hot Rod where they got 503hp/575tq with cam/heads/intake/header, along with significant durability mods. It's a lot lighter than a BBC, too.

 

here here!

 

any more info you could post if you care too which would be apprecieated on the olds 455 swap.

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

Okay, I know a local guy with an Olds in his 280Z, and next time I go by his shop I'll ask him if he has diagrams of the mounts. He said it was a pretty simple swap.