Short Block or Crate engine?

[Guest z31_drifter]

I have decided to do a V-8 swap. I hope to start this spring after I get some other stuff fixed on the car first, by the way, this is for my 280Z.

 

What would be best? Buy a crate motor, I'm thinking of the 330HP / 350 or get a ZZ4 shortblock and buy whatever cylinder heads I wanted and other parts that I needed. I would like to have around 450 - 500 HP.

[Guest rick458]

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/products/465/HT-383-Truck-GM-Performance-Parts-Crate-Engine-Assembly.htm

[Guest rick458]

Scoggin Dickey also carries Edelbrock, Dart, and many other types of crate and Long/small block engines they also have

 

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/products/466/LS1-Engine-Kit-w_Computer-GM-Performance-Parts-Crate-Engine-Assembly.htm

[Guest rick458]

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/63/Crate-Engines.htm

[Pop N Wood]

450-500 HP is on the high side for any "factory" type crate engine. You can surely get a "packaged" one from a private engine builder. But that is more of custom engine than a crate.

 

Car Craft mag dynoed a factory LS1 engine. It pulled 402 HP right out of the box. A little expensive, but it is complete and will have excellent street manners.

 

Probably better to build up your own 383 short block using all forged internals. Most of the GM blocks have PM rods and hypueritc pistons. You're getting into the HP range where you would want to go forged.

[SpeedRacer]

At 425 HP and 460 ft. lbs. of torque it a little shy of your requirements but a GM crate ZZ383 for $4,869.95 is a pretty good deal http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=73193

[Dudeboy]

Sallee Chevrolet performance shop provide several options. Check this out.

 

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/SalleeZZ450HP.html

 

 

Go to the site and also click on performance engines. Several other options.

[Guest rick458]

there is always this you didnt list a budget number

 

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/products/153750/ZL1-454ci-510-HP-Fuel-Injected-GM-Performance-Parts-Crate-Engine.htm

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

buy a short block for pretty cheap from Auto Zone, then add a set of aluminum or high performance iron heads, intake, cam, headers, carb, and other bolt ons, and you can get as much HP as you want for half the price of a crate motor.

[Guest z31_drifter]

I would like to stay around $3,500.00. It's either do a V-8 swap or have a Rebello Racing built engine for $4,200.00. It would be a turbocharged Rebello built engine though. I am still debating which one I should do though. Is the V-8 swap hard? I've never done a swap before, I have the JTR book though.

[Guest z31_drifter]

Auto Zone sells things like that? I didn't know that. You think a shortblock would be better then a crate engine though? That's what I'll probably go with anyways, then I can get my own heads and other things.

[Guest z31_drifter]

I plan to drag race with this, but I want to keep it streetable too. So which would be better? A manual or Auto transmsission and what Torque Converter stall should I go with?

[SpeedRacer]

Lots of places (like Autozone) sell rebuilt short blocks but if you want 450 - 500 HP you will throw it all away except the block.

 

BTW, a 450 - 500 HP motor will require many changes from reinforcements to the chassis to changing the rear end. Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

 

You can get a brand new crate 350 motor (with heads) for $1389.00 http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24755

 

It even has a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

Do you have AIM or Yahoo IM?

 

I can tell you everything you need to know about how to build a cheap and fast SBC.

[Guest z31_drifter]

Well I guess I am not gonna do the V-8 swap. A little bit too much money to do, I think. Instead I am going to build a 3.1L turbcharged engine.

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

LMAO! How do you figure you can do a boosted 3.1 cheaper than a V8 swap?

 

You're out of your mind!

 

So far I have $1275 total in my V8 swap... INCLUDING THE COST OF THE CAR!

 

I have everything I need except I have to get the driveshaft cut and welded, which should be about $50.

 

Like I said, if you have AIM or Yahoo IM I can school you on cheap swaps. I'm doing a swap on a friend's Nissan truck this week and he's so poor that he can't even afford food.

[grumpyvette]

"Well I guess I am not gonna do the V-8 swap. A little bit too much money to do, I think. Instead I am going to build a 3.1L turbcharged engine. "

 

TRUST ME ON THIS! YOULL HAVE SPENT FAR MORE MONEY FOR LESS RESULTS IN THE LONG RUN BUILDING A TRUELY COMPETATIVE TURBO SIX

here read this, I posted on a differant sight

as Ive gained more experiance, and Ive lost count years ago,of the number of engines Ive built and engine swaps Ive done over those years, it becomes more and more clear that the failure to think the process thru,CAREFULLY as to what you expect to accomplish and the results your likely to get, if you DON,T has a huge effect on the results.

first keep CLEARLY IN MIND HOTRODDING is A HOBBY thats SUPPOSED to be BOTH enjoyable and NOT your MAIN FOCUS IN LIFE! YOUR CARREER AND FAMILY are FAR MORE IMPORTANT

now Im sure most guys start off in this HOBBY with what they can afford in a car and slowly add performance parts to the existing car/combo/platform without much if any long term goals in mind other than " a vague, Im,making the car faster" goal.

this comonly results in cars that look and/or sound good but leave alot to be desired in performance.

most guys seem to use the (BAND AID APPROACH) I.E. once I install this (part, or modification) Ill see how it works and base the next mod on where I find myself at that point! or put another way, I fix the problems ONLY AFTER THEY BECOME ANNOYING ENOUGHT. THIS approch wastes a HUGE amount of resources and time and MONEY

EXAMPLE

no thought is ever given to a larger radiator untill the car overheats

NOR is a or stronger trans, higher stall converter, and higher rear gear ratio, ever purchased untill the car runs like #$%$%^ without it, once the engine mods are made!

 

yeah, we ALMOST all started that way!! and in part its because most of us, have thin wallets and have only our transportation car to work with.

 

BUT there are other options, and while it takes disipline and planing it can be done and can result in less total money spent and a better combo! and a far more impressive car once your done! TAKE YOUR TIME!,SET YOUR GOAL!, and DRIVE SOMETHING that MAKES YOUR FRIENDS GREEN WITH ENVY ONCE you GET IT BUILT!

and yeah it HELPS to have a GARAGE,TOOLS,ETC. but IVE seen some VERY surprizing results from cars built mostly under tarps in back yards on VERY LIMITED BUDGETS over several YEARS. Ive got several friends that take GREAT PRIDE in buying parts cheaply at swap meets, and/or working small jobs to finance thier cars

 

first you need to seriously think about what you want as an END PRODUCT

putting a couple hundred dollars a month into building a rusted out chevelle/camaro/nova,ETC. simply because thats what you currently own, if you would really rather own a CORVETTE,CUDA,COBRA,ETC. or building a V6,307,350, sbc if you want a 427,426,572,big block or turbo 377 sbc is wasted EFFORT, WHY POUR MONEY AND TIME TO BUILD TOWARD AN END RESULT YOU WON,T BE HAPPY WITH??

your first goal needs to be deciding on what you really want and the engine/trans combo it should have, and thats VERY DIFFICULT, because MOST of us set the goal higher than we can afford, or settle for far less car than we really want!

don,t settle! but be very realistic as to your goals,and take into account the tools, skills,and work area yoou AND YOUR friends are likely to have access too. and DON,T RUSH the process, if you have a limited BUDGET, THATS FINE (most of US DO!) that just means its likely to take longer! and DON,T forget you can usually swap the skills you aquire in this hobby and some spare time you have for parts and money along the way!

 

EXAMPLE

lets assume your hearts desire is a 1969 camaro with a 572 bbc crate engine, and a manual trans

the ENGINE alone costs about $15,000, the car could be had for about another $5000,-$20,000 depending on condition,and it would be REASONABLE to expect another $4000,to $8000 in misc cost to get that dream car on the road

so lets say $40,000,..........thats alot of money!!!

yet its not that expensive compared to a new Z06 corvette,and if you spread the expence out over YEARS VS months most guys can/could EVENTUALLY BUILD THAT DREAM CAR!

especially if they set THAT AS THIER GOAL, and stick to it VS wasting money on several other projects over the next few years!

another OPTION,(not a SMART ONE IN MOST CASES)is to finance the car now and make payments for years,sure you get instant satisfaction, but your also likey to have times when making those payments is a P.I.T.A.

THINK IT THRU, HAVE FUN! set your goal carefully, and work to complete THAT GOAL, so you ACHEIVE SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, NOT, SOMETHING YOU GOT CHEAPLY ,THAT NOT WORTH OWNING. but DON,T FORGET this is NOT THE ONLY ASPECT TO YOUR LIFE!

[Pop N Wood]

Looks like you are getting a pretty good reality check in this post. You know the old saying. Speed costs. How fast can you afford to go?

 

500 HP in a small block is a premium V8 . Probably 90% of the guys with V8's don't have near that much (and that 90% number is generous). For a 350 it won't be overly streetable either

 

You can buy in to a turbo L6 pretty cheap, but the words cheap and Rebello don't really go together. Good company, but not consistent with your goals.

 

You need to go back and start reading old posts. V8 vs. turbo 6 have been discussed to death. From a cost, HP and street reliablity point of view a cheby V8 is hard to beat. You just need to set goals that are more consistent with your reach.

[Mikelly]

I'll echo what Grumpy and Pop said...

 

Further, I'd NEVER buy a JUNK AutoZone motor... and throw steel heads on it???? One of the reasons to go to a V8 configuration is due to the ability to obtain near stock Ls Motor weight with the SBC properly equipped with aluminum heads, intake and water pump...

 

I'd also check that AutoZone motor for PM JUNK rods, a Junk cast crank, and Junk "CLAIMER" pistons, stuffed in a 2 bolt main block... Cheap ussualy means Short on life, long on cost... Good luck!

 

For the original poster... I can tell you without fail, I have spent a SMALL FORTUNE over the years on L6 motors and getting REAL and USABLE HP out of them... You will not build a stroker L6 for less than ANY of the crate motors PERIOD. For $5000 you can have a 400+HP motor in your Z, including the JTR kit installed.. The tranny and other parts will have to be sourced, but that will be a TRUE real numbers car... You will be hard pressed to get the same performance for the same money spent on a stroker L6... read that again... You can't do it.. period.

 

A rebello engine for $4200 sounds good until you add up everything you'll need to complete that install... Do you have the plumbing, intercooler, exhaust and other associated gages and electronics? Fuel Management? Do you have an upgraded clutch assembly for the added power? Regardless the direction you plan to go, you might want to make a PLAN and stick to it. Don't spend a dime until you have every aspect of the build sorted and resolved...

 

 

Mike

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

My engine is rebuilt by "Recon", the same company that builds engines for Auto Zone and Advance. I sold them for 3 years when I worked for Auto Zone's engine dept, and we rarely had any quality control problems.

 

It's a 010 casting 4-bolt block w/ hypereutectic pistons, all Clevite bearings, and reconditioned factory rods which are good to 450hp and/or 6000rpm. The whole long block was $850. Know of anywhere else you can get a ready to run long block 010 4-bolt for $850? Ever heard of anyone breaking a cast crank on a street/strip, Chevy motor? Doubt it. Ever actually HEARD of anyone having trouble due to 2-bolt mains? Doubt that, too.

 

The cost of the engine is worth it even if you throw away (sell) everything but the block and crank.

 

Ever heard of Dart Iron Eagle heads? Obviously not. They're pro street quality heads and are dirt cheap fully assembled ($800 street/strip, <$1100 race). Nothing wrong with iron heads if you don't need the weight loss. There's no such thing as "steel heads".

 

There's more than one way to do things.