AK-Z Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Looking at the posted pics. That process isn't what most manufacturers use to make CF item. They make a negative mold and lay resin preimpregnated carbonfiber sheets in, then they vacuum seal it and then bake it at 400 degrees for 3 hours to have the resin cure. End result would be a finished item that needs to be trimmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 AKZ ....How much would this alginite cost for a dash mold and where can you locate an oven big enough to slide this dash into. You are not just going to go out there and use some commercial/industrial oven to cure fiberglass no matter what you offer since the first words back will be "WTF are you smokin"..........I am looking for an oven larger than the standard kitchen oven to cure powder coat, any suggestions!.Priced a commercial used stove lartely. Excuse me, I am just a little testy since alginite and an oven cure maybe apropriate for minature projects but these dashs are bigger than a bread basket..........No doubt Mike has a small fortune invested in carbon fiber and resin . In any home project an important factor is cost and all improvisions should be considered to reduce cost. Mike and Owen have done a remarkable job in building these dash prototypes using cost effective innovations. I would say polyester resin and regular fiber would total at least $100.00 for a dash project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 AKZ ....How much would this alginite cost for a dash mold and where can you locate an oven big enough to slide this dash into. You are not just going to go out there and use some commercial/industrial oven to cure fiberglass no matter what you offer since the first words back will be "WTF are you smokin"..........I am looking for an oven larger than the standard kitchen oven to cure powder coat, any suggestions!.Priced a commercial used stove lartely. Excuse me, I am just a little testy since alginite and an oven cure maybe apropriate for minature projects but these dashs are bigger than a bread basket..........No doubt Mike has a small fortune invested in carbon fiber and resin . In any home project an important factor is cost and all improvisions should be considered to reduce cost. Mike and Owen have done a remarkable job in building these dash prototypes using cost effective innovations. I would say polyester resin and regular fiber would total at least $100.00 for a dash project. First of all Alginate cost about $150 for about 50 pounds of the stuff and a project that size would only need about 1-2 pounds. You can find Alginate even cheaper if you look for surplus alginate, And can get it even cheaper if its past its experation, it still has a 3 month shelf life after experation they lable it early becuase it originally made for dentistry. Second I never said that they needed to go buy a industrial size oven. I just stated how manufacturers are able to produce items with the carbon-fiber finish that would only need some trimming and some buffing, just to give them ideas on how they improve on their process. And if you re-read my post I stated manufactures use "resin preimpreganted carbon-fiber sheets," Obviously they aren'i using that. It just sucks when you put all this work into trying to get a clear resin finish out of an item, just to have to cover it up with body work just because of a few wrinkles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The ambition of the HybridZ'er never ceases to amaze me! Beautiful work guys. Just remember when your dash is that stiff and strong, make sure that you and your passenger wear a harness. I hate to sound like Ralph Nader but I just feel like it is worth mentioning here for someone casually browsing this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 AKZ ......your reply was apreciated...............I love the do it your self threads and especially the ones like this one where I learned something including the cost of alginite. I would like to get my hands on some of the air hardening material casts (for broken bones) are made from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nope Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 my suggestion (if youre going to scrap it and remake it) is to use that cf part as your new female plug (mold). Spend some time cleaning out the inside and filling/sanding out any imperfections. Once youre down to the last sanding stages, spray the entire inside with some black primer and wetsand it. Youll notice most of it will come off except for the areas that have small dips or scratches. In those spots either add filler (bondo) or if theyre really minor just blend them out by evenly sanding more in that entire general area. Use sanding blocks when possible in the direction of sanding to make sure the part come out plane. Add some material on the outside surface to strenghten it if needed. Add your gelcoat, if using one at all. If you can get some pre-preg cf use that, if not then just continue with the wet layup on the inside, then vacuum bag it. With no air leaks, you should end up with a really nice surface with only very minor imperfections to buff out. What you will end up with is a part thats surface is exactly the same as the original mold, with no changes due to the thickness of the part. I'm pretty busy this week but ill try to check in every once in a while to see if you have any more ideas or questions after reading this. note: if youre just doing wet layup with no vacuum bagging then dont put plastic over it. Thats why you got that wrinkly surface. Just lay down layer by layer, adding as minimal amounts of resin as you can bear, spend some time and work quickly to work it into the cloth either by hand (with gloves) or with a resin tool. Add less and less resin to each layer of carbon/glass in order to soak up some from the other layers. Once the cloth is completely wetted try to take as much resin back out as possible (benefit of vacuum bagging). Any more resin than necessary only makes the part gummy, weak and heavy. The surface youll end up with will be that of the cloth. Let it cure completely. Use those halogen work lamps as heat lamps if youve got them, heat ALWAYS makes you part stronger.. faster too. Later you can spray on some type of coating to get your nice glossy surface. long note.. JOHN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Thanks for the tips John. I've already started on the resurection process for the dash. I've added a layer of fiberglass mat and cloth on the backside of it to add some strength. I used a bodo squeegee to get most of the resin out after the cloth and mat had been wetted through, so it shouldn't add too much weight. Once I get a rigid enough structure I'll tackle the outside surface. The wrinkles are only caused by excess resin, the cloth is still flat under that so all of the surface irregularities should sand out without too much trouble. I'm still kinda bummed that it didn't turn out as well as I wanted it too, but not bummed enough to start over from scratch I've already started accumulating supplies for the next CF project, which will be the hood. This one will get a proper mold made, and will be vacuum bagged with a layer of peel ply to make sure it comes out light and strong, unlike the dash. This will have to wait until all the rust repair, structural mods, and cage are done in my car, probably in a month or two ( In HybridZ time, more like a year or so) Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nope Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 if you wanted to start a hood project, i had plans on doing the same in the near future. although i want to change mine a little, mainly just to widen the hump with some venting especially if i do a v-mount setup. i wouldnt mind working in tandem on something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 if you wanted to start a hood project, i had plans on doing the same in the near future. although i want to change mine a little, mainly just to widen the hump with some venting especially if i do a v-mount setup. i wouldnt mind working in tandem on something like that. Sounds good, two brains are always better than one. I'll actually be adding about 50% or so of a brain on account of all the fume inhalation and everything, but you get the basic picture Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8260 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Mike I see you're from SD' date=' so I know you must own a pair of sunglasses! I don't know if you've seen my dash, but I've painted mine gloss black and I've never had a problem with glare. Plus it looks cool at nite with the street lamps reflecting off it![img']http://homepage.mac.com/toshikato/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2004-12-13%2010.30.59%20-0800/Image-B0A83FAC4D3411D9.jpg[/img] Owen nice dash. i really like that alot. id like to see your project sometime. i go to school in huntingon beach but live in costa mesa. anyway nice work with the dash. i was thinking of doing that to mine. long story...there was a NOS dash on ebay and i ended up buying it for $1400....feels like a mistake now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 $1400...damn...re-sell it for $2400! Where do you go to school? I'm only around after 6 on weeknites and at least one of the days of the weekend. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nope Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 ztard, hows that dash coming along? im just starting on my hood project. maybe you, me and owen should meet up one of these weekends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 ztard, hows that dash coming along? im just starting on my hood project. maybe you, me and owen should meet up one of these weekends? I finished reinforcing the backside of it, and it eneded up being quite strong afterwards, and still pretty light. I also decided on adding another coat of resin to the exterior to cover some of the low spots.... I've been waiting now for about 2 weeks for the final layer of resin to cure so I can sand it down to a smooth surface. I took a lot of precautions with the epoxy resin to make sure it was mixed well, but for some reason the last layer just didn't quite kick all the way. It's still pretty tacky, hopefully the resin below that is cured enoguh to sand on. As a last resort, I do have a container of Herculiner that will hide most of the mistakes i've made on this . I just ordered a bunch of peel ply and bagging material, along with about a years supply of nitrile gloves, so I'm much better prepared for doing another project now than I was when I did the dash. Let me know when you have a free weekend, I've got a ton of ideas for hood designs, along with a full roll of heavy fiberglass cloth for mold making, etc. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8260 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 $1400...damn...re-sell it for $2400! Where do you go to school? I'm only around after 6 on weeknites and at least one of the days of the weekend. Owen Marina High. im in HB almost everyday. once im done with the body work on my z (about 60% done) ill bring it and we can meet sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Marina High. im in HB almost everyday. once im done with the body work on my z (about 60% done) ill bring it and we can meet sometime. cool, i went to ocean view and live a block away from there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I went to Park View Elementary '69-'74. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantaz Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Wayyy off topic. went to Bell Gardens Intermediate in 75-76 BGI as they called it then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 I don't know where either of those schools are! I grew up in Torrance and moved to Huntington Beach 1st year of high school. First time I even heard of Bell Gardens was last year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Since the weather has been much warmer out here lately, I've been taking the dash to work every day and letting it bake in the back of my jeep. Not a very scientific way to go about things, but definitely in keeping with my style. It seems to have worked, as all the resin has cured to a nice solid surface, albeit one that is irregular and full of lumps. I've started the un "F" ing process by knocking down all of the lumps with some 60 grit sand paper. So far this is going pretty slowly, but gradually an even surface is appearing from under all the lumps of crap I built up on it. Once I have an even surface, it will just be a matter of working it down with progressively finer grades of sand paper until it's smooth enough to polish. No pics yet, but as soon as I have something worth posting I'll do another update. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAW Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Z-tard, I was reading through this thread and noticed a post from a month or two ago in which you said there was probably some out-gassing from the epoxy and it smelled like almonds...I'm not sure if my recall is good but cyanide came to mind. I know that cyanoacrylate is a component of a lot of epoxys and polyurethane foams...be careful about ventilation or you'll be poisoning your brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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