Need some oppinions, if this is a good deal (OMG am I turning ricer??)

[Guest bastaad525]

Okay, I saw this guy driving... well.. crawling down the freeway one day in rush hour traffic, with for sale written on his car.

 

It was a '91 Honda Civic hatchback, black.

 

yeah... normally I'd not even have paid it any mind... but it was what else was written on the car got my attention.

 

"For Sale - '91 - Turbo - 250 hp"

 

Instant interest So I get the guys number. I haven't talked to him yet, other than when I yelled out the window on the freeway "how much?" $2300... seems a good deal to me. But other than that I know very little else about the car. All I can say is, I give instant respect, as he's one of the few I've ever seen to emphasize performance before looks... very cool.

 

I couldn't see much. The car is tasteful, as Civics go. The body is all stock, the muffler was aftermarket, but not typical rice, in look or in sound... it was a tastefully chosen muffler. The car was not too loud at all when i was driving next to/behind him. It had some VERY nice rims on it, guessing 17-18". Otherwise it was about as sleeper as you can get. Dont' know anything about the turbo itself yet, but I figure the cost of the turbo kit alone is at least the price he's asking for the car... let alone adding those rims... this car seems like a steal. For him to be trusting it in 405 rush hour traffic (one of if not the worst freeway in SoCal, a place known for it's horrible freeway traffic) tells me the car probably runs well or at least is devoid of major engine/tranny problems (too presumptuous of me?). It definately sounded like it was running fine. I know *I* wouldn't trust it in that kind of traffic on a warm day heading up that hill if it had any major problems.

 

The number he gave me was for his office (he works at a Honda dealership as a service consultant, I found out), so I don't figure I"ll hear from him til monday... have a TON of questions to ask him, but so far I figure this car sounds like a great deal, wanted some second oppinions.

 

What do you guys think? I feel like a dink as I just payed a significant amount more than this for a same year ('91) Sentra SE-R (I got ripped pretty bad but man I've wanted one forever)... was desperate for a more reliable, more economical daily driver, but something that would still be fun as well. The Sentra, while fun, is by no means fast... a turbo Civic set to run mild would be everything I was originally looking for... in theory at least. If that's 250hp to the wheels, and those Civics being light as I know they are, the thing would be faster than my Z. At any rate... if I bought this and it ran good I may just resell the Sentra.

 

So... good deal? Should I jump on it or what?

[lifegrddude]

Turbos on Hondas are pretty quick, depending on what motor is in that hatchback. I think the hardest part for you will be to pass smog because no legal turbo kit has been sold for an EF style hatch. If he has an engine swap B16/B18 you might be able to pass if it's a Greddy or Edlebrock kit, they're the only 2 manufacterers I know that produce 50 state legal kits. 250whp will be solid 13's if you can get it to hook up off the line. If there's a main advantage of Hondas, it's their light weight. Definitely check the condition of the CV's and tranny before you buy it, and especially the motor mounts, they're not very strong from my experience w/ my friends' Civics.

 

John

[Guest bastaad525]

eh... think I may have to pass on this one... I knew it sounded too good to be true.

 

lifegrdude - you hit the nail on the head in a couple spots...

 

well, here's all the details I got over the phone from him today:

 

First things first, this guy knows very little about the car... turns out some of his buddy's there, techs at the honda dealership he works at, decided to do a lot of this stuff to his car for him... most of the questions I asked him he didn't know the answer.

 

Things he does know: It has the stock motor, he said D16... didn't even know how many cams it has (D16 has single cam right?). The motor has 200,000 miles on it (!!!!). He doesn't know what kind of turbo is in there or who manufactured the kit. It does have an intercooler. It does not have a BOV. He didn't know if it was internal or external wastegate, or how it was controlling boost. He doesnt' even know how much boost it's running (!!!!!). The ECU has been modified, and larger injectors added. It has had the springs and shocks upgraded, but stock brakes. It has an upgraded clutch (again, he doesn't know what kind). It has A/C but it needs a recharge and uses the older R12.

 

He hasn't had it tuned, and says it runs pretty rich, and has ruined the stock catalytic converter, and no it wont pass smog either way, not even the sniffer test. But as lifegrdude pointed out, even with a new cat and tune it wont pass visual as the kit is not CARB legal. I hate CA.....

 

He doesn't even know for real how much HP it has... he and his tech friends estimate 250hp. How they could possibly guess this w/o having any idea how much boost it's even running, is beyond me.

 

But I DO know enough about honda's to know, that number is probably pretty off the mark. Because I know that a stock Civic motor can NOT handle very much boost... 7-8psi is what I've always heard, with 10 or more psi pretty much making the car a ticking time bomb. I know the rods on those stock motors are like pencil thin and just not meant for boost. I also know a stock civic motor is only good for about 100hp... and 7-8psi on top of 100hp doesn't not 250hp make... I know a friend with a mild CRX setup running about this much boost and he made 160 or 170 to the wheels. So I figure this car might be good for that as well. Or, it is making 250hp at some insane high boost level and just a few clicks of the odometer away from a trashed engine.

 

 

Well... for the amount of work in it I still feel it's definately worth his asking price... I want to at least have a good look at it, hear it up close and take it for a spin, but I'm thinking this wouldn't be a good car for me... just end up being another project and I already got all the project I need with the Z.

[fl327]

if its clean enough, dude could get close to 2300.00 for it without the turbo

[Guest bastaad525]

that's my mentality... even after he told me a lot of things that would normally put me off... I keep thinking that for that price I could at the least, part the thing out and double/tripple my invesment. Well if/when he calls me back I'll go check it out.

 

 

On a side note, I was talking with some guys in one of the local 'rice shops' here and brought up my Sentra ('91 SE-R) and they saide they've done quite a few SR20DET conversions on this bodystyle, and can get the whole thing installed and running, including engine and trans, for about $3500. The guy even wanted to give my number to one of his more recent customers for this swap, maybe have him take me for a ride or something to try to sell me (like he'd really need to try!), and to prove that it can be done this cheap. I can go real mild, no I/C, some low amount of boost, and put about 200hp to the wheels, to hear him tell it.

 

Freakin tempting, to say the least.

[Guest PaulfromPA]

You can definately turbocharge your sentra for a lot less than $3500. Check out sr20forum.com for all the info you could possibly need for your B13. If you're looking for a mild setup (i.e. around 250whp) in conjunction with the B13's light weight of around 2400 pounds, the stock sr20de you have in it now will be fine (provided it has good compression). Depending on how much you paid for your sentra it will be more than the cost of the turbo civic, but then again you'll have something more unique. For an example of the costs: http://www.turbochargedse-r.com/turboinstall.html which says it will run you a little under $2000.

 

Or if you can get the cash and then sell your SE-R later... check out this car: http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=103023

 

$4500 would be an awesome deal for a car that is totally setup right and should make a very reliable daily driver. I had a SR20DET sentra and it served me extremely well and was a hoot to drive in the drive and wet. Good luck man:).

[Guest bastaad525]

sheez I WISH I had the $4500 for that car!! friggin NICE Sentra that one, exactly like mine except like twice as fast same color and all though... heck I could be sneaky and trade it and my wife wouldn't even notice

 

He's got like 15 people interested but still hasn't sold the car... wow. He not too far from me but unfortunately, the $4500 is. Ah well... another great deal I will miss out on. and kick myself for considering that isn't much more than I payed for my bone stock Sentra. Odd though he's been trying to sell since early January and just posted again like a week ago... you'd think it'd be long gone by now.

 

Thanks for the links though... yeah I figured I could turbo my existing motor for quite a bit less than $3500, but was also thinking with over 150k miles on the clock and no idea how well this thing has been taken care of (gotta get around to comp and leakdown testing it), I thought it'd be worth the extra money to just get a whole 'nuther motor and tranny, assuming they could guarantee it not be super high mileage (anything under 100k is fine by me). If this motor checked out to be in good shape then yeah it'd be feasible to just slap a turbo on this one. But now I'm thinking... you know I went thru this whole thing with my Z, turned around and found out, there are just too many deals floating around out there on done or near done cars, I'd probably be WAY better off just buying one of those instead, save me a lot of time, hassle and money, and then I could sell the one I have to recoup even more of that.

 

 

EDIT: IF he still has that car, I might see if I can't scramble to get the cash... I figure I can get around $1500-2000 for mine, so only need $3000 to get it.

[Guest PaulfromPA]

sheez I WISH I had the $4500 for that car!! friggin NICE Sentra that one' date=' exactly like mine except like twice as fast same color and all though... heck I could be sneaky and trade it and my wife wouldn't even notice

 

He's got like 15 people interested but still hasn't sold the car... wow. He not too far from me but unfortunately, the $4500 is. Ah well... another great deal I will miss out on. and kick myself for considering that isn't much more than I payed for my bone stock Sentra. Odd though he's been trying to sell since early January and just posted again like a week ago... you'd think it'd be long gone by now.

 

Thanks for the links though... yeah I figured I could turbo my existing motor for quite a bit less than $3500, but was also thinking with over 150k miles on the clock and no idea how well this thing has been taken care of (gotta get around to comp and leakdown testing it), I thought it'd be worth the extra money to just get a whole 'nuther motor and tranny, assuming they could guarantee it not be super high mileage (anything under 100k is fine by me). If this motor checked out to be in good shape then yeah it'd be feasible to just slap a turbo on this one. But now I'm thinking... you know I went thru this whole thing with my Z, turned around and found out, there are just too many deals floating around out there on done or near done cars, I'd probably be WAY better off just buying one of those instead, save me a lot of time, hassle and money, and then I could sell the one I have to recoup even more of that.

 

 

EDIT: IF he still has that car, I might see if I can't scramble to get the cash... I figure I can get around $1500-2000 for mine, so only need $3000 to get it.[/quote']

 

I totally understand your thinking in the entirety of your post:).

 

Like I said I had a sr20det B13 before. I bought it for about $4100 fully setup. It was a pretty stellar deal as it had a couple other mods in addition. However, I never fully understood the car like when people asked questions or the rare moment I did some wrenching on it. Having sr20forum standing by did help out a lot as well as getting lucky with the seller offering his advice frequently. Still, if you are looking for the most bang for your buck and find the person that did the swap etc. to be a good person/wrencher, then buying one already setup as you stated will save you a lot. If you have a working knowledge of turbocharging and automotive basics, then you should feel fine. I just always felt sort of like an imposter driving around a car that I didn't know completely due to my lack of knowledge of the entire swap and general automotive knowledge. Just a side note... the guy that sold that B13 to me bought it back from me when I went to a more professional Maxima for my career:).

 

If you could snatch up the $4500 sentra, you'd be getting a lot better deal IMO than the civic. He's already had it smogged in cali, it had a motor built for boost, it is more unique and will almost definately be faster than the civic without some major mods to the civic, and costs add up quickly with car mods. If you can... I'd say that car should fit all the purposes you have stated. I don't know how much you paid for the B13 you have now, but just remember that you'd be getting a great deal with the $4500 sentra compared to building up the one have now, so that should balance out any deal you have to cut to move your B13. Good luck man!!

[Guest PaulfromPA]

Almost forgot to respond to the other parts of your post...

 

Depending on your wife (if she is anything like my previous girlfriend) she won't bat an eyelash besides asking if why your cute little car is louder and makes a weird wooshing sound. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I remember brake boosting on the highway coming back from my purchase in pittsburgh to hear that beautiful feat of engineering coo it's love sounds to me. Sshhhhhhhhhhhhssssssssssssssss pachooooo .... ugh it's orgasmic.

 

Anyway back on earth... you should be able to swap in the sr20det on your current car for a lot less than $3500. Turboing the 150k motor is possible, but I personally would feel the same as you concerning the mileage.

 

It's really a decision of if you want to spend more $ and get the pleasure of working on your car yourself/completely know your car (if this is something you enjoy) + the visceral thrill of a turbo sentra, or if you want to spend the least amount and still get the same (if not better in this particular example... that's an awesome setup!!) visceral thrill. Hope that makes the decision easier and good luck... please let me know whatever direction you choose... I miss my turbo sentra!!

[Guest bastaad525]

yeah that is the one downside of buying an already done car like that... you're not gonna be familiar with it, and it's not something you can just browse thru a handy Haynes manual to figure out if something goes wrong. Whereas with my Z I know the thing front to back side to side.... But hey if I find some good deal like that Sentra all that can go out the window I'd rather save the time, money and alllll the headaches... been thru that once with the Z and once is DEFINATELY enough! Unless I win the Lottery, have nice house, fully outfitted garage, and lots of spare time on my hands, I dont think I'll EVER want to do another project car again. Anyways I don't think I'll be able to pick up this Sentra... only way I could get the money to do it would be to sell my Z or take out a loan... tempting on both fronts but I know neither one is really the right thing to do. But at least now I know they can be found for a good price.

 

About that Civic... pfffft yeah I wrote that off days ago, the thing sounded like it had a lot of problems, the guy didn't even know anything about the car, and seemed intimidated to even have me asking detailed questions that he didn't know the answer to.

[Guest PaulfromPA]

yeah that is the one downside of buying an already done car like that... you're not gonna be familiar with it' date=' and it's not something you can just browse thru a handy Haynes manual to figure out if something goes wrong. Whereas with my Z I know the thing front to back side to side.... But hey if I find some good deal like that Sentra all that can go out the window I'd rather save the time, money and alllll the headaches... been thru that once with the Z and once is DEFINATELY enough! Unless I win the Lottery, have nice house, fully outfitted garage, and lots of spare time on my hands, I dont think I'll EVER want to do another project car again. Anyways I don't think I'll be able to pick up this Sentra... only way I could get the money to do it would be to sell my Z or take out a loan... tempting on both fronts but I know neither one is really the right thing to do. But at least now I know they can be found for a good price.

 

About that Civic... pfffft yeah I wrote that off days ago, the thing sounded like it had a lot of problems, the guy didn't even know anything about the car, and seemed intimidated to even have me asking detailed questions that he didn't know the answer to.[/quote']

 

That sounds like the right decision about the civic... the situation just didn't sound right for a cheap and reliable daily driver. Even though it might not be as fast... have fun with your B13!! Even NA they are a lot of fun. Let me know if you change your mind on anything man:).

[Tim240z]

2 words for both conversions: Emissions testing.....(unless of course the kits used are CARB compliant, or it will be a track only toy)

[Thumper]

I had a 91 sentra se-r as my first car. I owned it for 5yrs. N/A stock j-spec engine (10:1 compression) I ran a 14.2 This was stripped and few other goodies. With 75 shot of nitrous I ran 13.1@109 I loved the car but wanted to go to rear wheel drive. I would buy a sentra for a daily driver anyday. But do not turbocharge the n/a motor they ARE different. If you want a turbo then get the bluebird motor. All with an intercooler and boost controller you can put out about 250hp. Hope this helps.

[Guest PaulfromPA]

I had a 91 sentra se-r as my first car. I owned it for 5yrs. N/A stock j-spec engine (10:1 compression) I ran a 14.2 This was stripped and few other goodies. With 75 shot of nitrous I ran 13.1@109[/email'] I loved the car but wanted to go to rear wheel drive. I would buy a sentra for a daily driver anyday. But do not turbocharge the n/a motor they ARE different. If you want a turbo then get the bluebird motor. All with an intercooler and boost controller you can put out about 250hp. Hope this helps.

 

Everything sounds good besides warning against turboing the stock motor. http://www.turbochargedse-r.com/home.html The owner of this site turboed a stock DE and had great results. It eventually died on him but lasted him a couple years. If you have the cash go for the sr20det, but turboing a sr20de will not kill the engine with boost right away.

[Guest bastaad525]

I'd prefer to buy the DET motor anyways... it's gonna be a pain in the but either way if I'm going to do any kind of swap/install myself... I imagine I'm doubling my trouble if I try to turbo the stock motor. and probably not saving much money that way either.

[Thumper]

The main difference is the n/a motor does not have oil piston squirters. A few people have installed them into a n/a motor but few have met with success. http://www.se-r.net/car_info/de_det_differences.html Its a great website that has lots of useful info. Good luck.