JaysZ Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 my closest buddies, all car nuts, have the following cars. 1991 NSX, 2003 M3, 2001 M Roadster. these are their daily drivers the bastards lol. my car on the other hand is an Accord with my Datsun being the weekend car that I havent driven since January (extensive body work). Question is would I be able to keep up with them. My motor is as follows. L28 Block. E88 head. Cam unknown... haven't torn it down yet Triple Weber 40DCOE's (not installed yet) 6-2-1 headers (but I have 6-1 with a cracked flange thats repairable) HKS 10lb flywheel Clutchmaster stage 5 clutch '81 280ZX 5spd Flowmaster Ultra 40 (or should I straight pipe it?) --being a '78, its smog exempt in texas right? compression ratio... also unknown but I'm sure I have regular dished pistons I'd like to increase my compression ratio by getting flat-top pistons and upgrading the cam. most other "mods" will primarily be in the form of weight reduction. i basically have stock suspension/brakes w/ exception of springs, shocks, and front swaybar. what else would i need to do to be able to run with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Without knowing your cam specs or whether the valves have been upgraded to the larger 280 Z valves it's hard to say for certain, but assuming the compression ratio is stock 8.3:1 and the cam is stock in a heavy 280Z it's doubtful you will have a chance. As a reference in my lighter 240Z with my old 2.8L with 9.6:1 CR and cam I dusted every NSX ,Vette and M3 I raced at Farmington back in 1998. I was running 8.50's @ 81 mph in the 1/8 then and none of those cars ran better than 8.80's back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 im goin to jump out on a limb and say noo. maybe with a turbo, or serious carressing of the head, or possibly a stroker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violacleff Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I had a similar setup with a 3.0l block with su's, and I'd have to say no. Perhaps a stroker setup or better yet a turbo (which I eventually went to) would give you what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysZ Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 yeah.. thats pretty much what i expected to hear lol. i would like to turbo a car in my future but not for this particular project. i would like to stick with an L28 and stay N/A. i was just curious to see what others have done to their motors and i guess stroking it would be the best way to go. would swapping out the head for a P90 or N54 do much? at that point i could probably go with a bigger cam, bigger valves, port/polish, and new pistons at the same time, but this might take me a long while to get that kind of cash! my brakes and suspension are more important to me at this point anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 if you were goin to put a head on your N/A car you wouldnt want a p90. look for an e88 or n42. never heard of a n54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Take a look at this link....... http://www.geocities.com/zgarage2001/engine.html LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatejoefitz Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 without going turbo youre definitely going to have a hard time keeping up. however, you've got the right idea in starting with body work, brakes, and suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysZ Posted May 7, 2005 Author Share Posted May 7, 2005 if you were goin to put a head on your N/A car you wouldnt want a p90. look for an e88 or n42. never heard of a n54 oops, i meant F54. I have an E88, should i stick with that or get the F54? COZY Z COLE, thanks for that link. i was looking at that a year ago and lost the link when i upgraded my computer. thanks i will be studying that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Poly Zmanaustin Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 if you were goin to put a head on your N/A car you wouldnt want a p90. look for an e88 or n42. With all do respect to 4ever DATSUN I have to disagree. The P90 head (the one with the hydraulic valves) and F54 block would be my first choice whether you were going to do a turbo setup or stroker motor. These are the best components to work with IMHO. JaysZ, I would recommend you start with a 240Z if you are thinking of something closer to stock trim as its much lighter. A stroker motor with your triples would do pretty well in that chassis. Sounds like your just starting out and don't have that much time/money vested in your 280ZX. If you go with a turbo setup or V8 your friends wouldn't have a prayer or catching you in your 280ZX, but in stock form or even a little massaging its a pretty heavy vehicle lacking some punch. As for your buddies with the BMWs and NSX. Are you looking to beat them on straight line or at a track road racing? I am asking this because a fast car can help, but a good driver can overcome a lot. I had a buddy who had an older altima and asked me what he could do for about 200 bucks to make his car go faster. I responded by telling him he could let me drive. I think I appreciated that more than he did, but the point I am trying to make is the driver can be a big factor if its not just a straight line. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Poly Zmanaustin Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Take a look at this link....... http://www.geocities.com/zgarage2001/engine.html LARRY Larry, I just checked out this link. I should've looked earlier. Great link! That's pretty good information and advice. Long live the Z! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Driver Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 All I can tell you is your setup will need to be able to run close to a 13 flat. The E46 M3 does the quarter in 13.2 consistenly with the stock record being 12.7. The 2001-02 M Roadster has the S54 engine in it which is the same as the E46 M3's just rated with slightly less horsepower because of exhaust. The 1991 NSX is slower the the former, but is still a low 14 to high 13 second car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 well hydraulic lifters or not, youd have to do some serious shaving and shimming to get any decent amout of compression on a N/A motor. for ease of use, anyone is better off with an e88 or n42. one of these heads with a good porting job can flow just as well. p90 is a great head, and i think only the p90a had hydraulic lifters. do you know what the cc of the chamber is? and an f54 is a block wich came on the zx's. wouldnt increase hp's, its just got webbing in the water jackets between the cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 JaysZ - For the time, effort and money that you are going to put into that NA set-up you should just go the distance and turbo it. The effort is not much more, the cash outlay not much but the power difference IS MUCH MORE!!! A NSX and '03 M3 are some pretty mighty machines to hang with...you would be hard pressed to keep up with that kind of company. Now if you had a L28ET in there..........trust me been there done that. Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Poly Zmanaustin Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 JaysZ - For the time' date=' effort and money that you are going to put into that NA set-up you should just go the distance and turbo it. The effort is not much more, the cash outlay not much but the power difference IS MUCH MORE!!! A NSX and '03 M3 are some pretty mighty machines to hang with...you would be hard pressed to keep up with that kind of company. Now if you had a L28ET in there..........trust me been there done that. Yasin[/quote'] Yasin is right. The L28ET when set up correctly can be a 3 pamper ride. Its a pretty straight forward swap. When I did it 10 years ago there wasn't much info about it. Now there is a ton of info and choices. 4everDATSUN People can say what they want, but I don't particulary like the E88 head. IMHO its old school stuff. Yes, the CR is higher and you can just bolt it on. If that is all you do its okay, but if you plan to set up the motor down the line the P90 has flow advantages and better chamber design that allow you to run higher CR with more timing and less detonation. Since JaysZ is talking about running triples its a better head. If you run race gas all the time I would say the difference is much less, but on street gas its a big deal. I disagree about having to shave the shim the P90 head a ton. Even if you did shave the head its cheap, porting it and going with bigger valves is far more expensive. Why not start with a head that has better flow characteristics to begin with? Depends on which pistons are used in the block too. I think cost is a consideration too, because I don't think just slapping on a few parts will beat the cars JaysZ wants to. I am assuming he is going to be pushing the motor to its limits and trying to squeeze everything out of it. That is why I suggested the F54 block. Its the strongest because of the water jackets and cooling advantages. If JaysZ goes with a 3.1 liter stroker motor he is going to want that. The beauty of using the P90 head and F54 block is JaysZ can run his set-up with triples now and if he wants to change his mind and upgrade later he can do a 3.1 liter or do an L28ET setup. I just like having those kinds of choices. That's what is so cool about the interchangability of datsun parts it gives a wide range for everyones preference. Good Luck, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysZ Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 thanks everyone for chiming in. to answer a few questions, being able to "race" them is more of a novelty idea. it would be fun, but almost unrealistic for this motor and my measly budget and i realize that. i was just hoping to hear that i could keep up with them on their weekend runs down the freeway i guess i'll just have to ride with one of them to enjoy it lol. all in all my ultimate goal for this car is to autocross it, not competitively but just for fun. perhaps one day when i have the funds and the proper car i can get more serious with it. i want to keep that vintage air about it, with a few touches of my own, which is why i would like to keep it N/A. i love the idea of having a car carbureted because i love the sound of engines and nothing beats the sound of triples sucking that air in as far as the performance, i'm pretty new to this aspect of building the car. but again, i would like to keep it vintage.. not so much that is just plain dumb, inefficient, and worthless, but... i dont know. its hard to explain what goes on in my head. this is my first time tackling such a project to begin with. so far most of my money and effort has gone into repairing the rust and other things that kept breaking along the way. the 2nd hour i became the owner of the car (its been about 7 or 8 months now), the tranny locked up on the drive home since the previous owner failed to tell me the car might be low on transmission fluid. i was naive not to check it but i was so giddy i assumed it was ok.. big mistake. 2 transmissions later, master/slave cylinder, new clutch, seals, etc. and many hours of sweat, blood, and tears i was able to get a good tranny and get it installed without a hitch (thanks to Olie05 for helping out and sourcing the 2nd tranny). there is soooo much more to do its not even funny! a stroker kit from what i understand is quite a bit of money. if i were to go that route, should i leave the E88 for a ported/polished/stroked F54? or should i just listen to everyones advice of "ok stupid, stop being so damn particular and get the !@#$* L28ET!" :) jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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