Dyno numbers

[Guest zfan]

Dynoed the 240Z with 385 stroker in her. Man 700r4 are horsepower pigs. I ran her 3 times and air fuel was dead on at 13. I made 362 hp and 402 tq. I did manage to either blow an intake or head gasket as I was puking coolant from the drivers side head, down where the block and head meet.

 

They did not have a flashlight so I really couldn't identify the exact area from which the coolant came from. I did manage to limp it home and it did have a miss or something and did not want to idle at all.

 

Mike

[Guest 73TPIZ]

Great numbers,

 

How much HP do you think the 700R4 is sucking up? Have you run it on an engine dyno and seen the numbers from the crank? Just wondering as that's what tranny i run. Would the 200R4 rob less than the 700?

 

Again awesome numbers.

 

BTW What RPMs were your peak #'s at?

[Guest zfan]

Typically they use up 23-25 percent hp/tq. I made max torque at 4k and max hp at 6200 rpms. The hp numbers as far as where I made max power makes no sense as I told them to spin it to 6200 but it looks like they took it to 6800 and it was still making 355 hp.

 

Mike

[Corzette]

Mike, great numbers but I agree with ya about the 700R4. I think Im gonna throw in a T350 when I get back since I dont need anymore for highway cruising. I may just throw it in the Orange one and sell the T56 later on. Let us know how she progresses!

 

Terry

[Corzette]

I just found out that a 700R4 weighs 184 pounds and the T350 is only 119!!! Damn thats a savings of 65 pounds and less parasitic power loss. Mike I bet we could gain at least 3 tenths by swapping them out. The T350C has the lockup available as well...but with a 3500 stall and a 27 inch tire we wouldnt need it really... Hey I have a Raptor fully built top of the line 700R4 for sale!!!

 

Terry

[Guest bastaad525]

Still hoping the mods create a dyno database to go along with the timeslip database

[Scottie-GNZ]

Still hoping the mods create a dyno database to go along with the timeslip database

WHY? So we can compare apples to oranges?

[Guest bastaad525]

Who's comparing anything? Where'd you get that from? No, not for comparing, but rather, because there are always people coming in asking "hey, how much power can I make with this engine/part(s)/setup/etc.". And it would be cool to have a big database of dyno numbers covering a wide assortment of setups, that people could look and see what other people are getting with setups similiar to what they may be doing, OR to give them ideas for setups when they aren't sure what to build. It's not about comparing or saying "hey I made more power than these other guys!".

 

And anyways, I've said it before I'll say it again, comparing track times is as much comparing apples to oranges as comparing dyno sheets. With the immense amount of variables that can effect any car's (and it's driver's) performance on any given run, you never know that a number in the timeslip database is a true indicator of what that given setup can do. Unless you have a ton of runs under your belt showing consistency, which most don't. So for the purposes of comparison track times are just about as apples to oranges as dyno numbers.

 

It's ALL apples to oranges, but who cares? The point is, many of us are very interested in seeing other peoples dyno charts. Every time a dyno thread is posted it gets tons of views and responses. And I think that having a single easy to find database to go and look up everyone's dyno graphs would be very convenient and I'm sure others would agree.

[Guest zfan]

That combo I just dyno'd in my 2840 lb car (240Z) with me in it went a best of 11.41 at 121. 60 ft. was 1.78 I believe. I really would like to see a 10 second run but I am beginning to wonder if I will get any faster than 11.30 at 121.

 

I am thinking of swapping out the hydraulic roller cam for a mechanical roller cam with more duration and lift but a little wider lobe seperation to help with the idle.

 

Currently I am running the Comp Cams Extreme energy hydraulic roller 236/242 duration with 553/540 lift and a 110 lobe seperation. I use 1.6 roller rockers on the intake side and 1.5's on the exhaust side.

 

Mike

[Guest zfan]

Terry,

 

Yeah I have entertained the idea of a Turbo 350 tranny but then I can't cruise around much with out spinning the engine to 3200 at 60 mph. In Dallas 60 mph on the freeway spells ROAD RAGE around these parts. Hell 70 mph and they tailgate you.

 

Mike

[grumpyvette]

ZFANs correct the extra 65 lbs means very little to your performance . in a 2800 lb (Z) the differance would add about 2.3% to the weight, but having an overdrive top gear means a great deal to both engine life and top speed. plus it allows you to run a MUCH higher (NUMBER RATIO) rear gear and still run highway freindly rpms. you can play with these calculators and get a good idea

 

 

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcmph.htm

 

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrpm.htm

 

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrgr.htm

 

 

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/transc.htm

 

Turbo 700R-4 3.06 1.63

53.268% 1.00

61.350% 0.70

70.000%

 

btw the 700r4 AUTO transmission and drive train absorbs about 20% of the power rarely higher, manuals absorb about 17%-18% so the differance is reasonable, and many cars with auto transmissions are faster due to the tq multiplication a torque converter allows at launch and the more consistant shifts, and Id also point out a 700r4 has a tq converter that locks solid in od for increased mileage while a th350 always has slippage, and that slippage adds a good deal of extra heat to the trans fluid lowering trans life

 

stick a 3.90 rear gear ratio and 26" tires on that (Z) and youll run 3000rpm at 59mph with a th350

 

stick a 3.90 rear gear ratio and 26" tires on that (Z) and youll run 2100 rpm at 59mph with a 700r4

[Corzette]

I hear ya Mike. I def understand that. Like Scotty once told me if ya can get your 60 foot down a couple of tenths you WILL run a 10. I KNOW your car has that or better in the launch with good tires. Time for some QTPs!

 

Terry

[grumpyvette]

Corzette ??

 

what cam are you currently running?

 

whats your current engine combo?

 

what other cams have you tried?

[mas28O]

Zfan I picked up 25hp on the dyno by locking the converter.

380 unlocked

405 locked

4l60e

[Scottie-GNZ]

Mike (ZFan),

 

MAS280 makes a very good point about the lockup. Here are a couple of things to ponder and while they are not exact science, consider them good rules of thumb.

 

- You have the power to cut better than a 1.78 60' and take advantage of locking up the converter in 3rd.

- I am all for lowering the weight of the car no matter how small, but at what cost? Here is another way to look at the 65lb weight savings by swapping the tranny. Rough calculation of your HP based ET/MPH/weight (not dyno) is 390rwhp, which equates to ~7.9 lbs/hp. That means the 65lb weight loss is equiv to a 9hp gain which will probably net you typically .1 on the ET (not factoring in the other positive benefits like parasitic loss mentioned by Corzette).

- Dropping the 60' to even a 1.60 will net you about a .27 gain in ET. Key factors in making that happen is having the right converter to match the engine setup, tires that hook, taking advantage of the weight transfer and weight distribution and putting yourself in a zone to improve the 60'. That means seat time and completely ignoring the car next to you or the lights and just focusing on what you and the car are doing until you nail down a launch technique that works. IOW, while you are doing this you are not "racing" the car in the other lane.

- While probably not fair to compare our cars, I have already cut a 1.51 on 255/50-16 MT DRs without much effort, so a 1.60 is doable.

- Locking the converter will net me at least .2 and 2-3+mph in the ET. When the converter is unlocked, it is slipping and converter slippage is HP not reaching the rear wheels as evidenced by MAS280's experience on the dyno.

- Being able to lock the converter while cruising is a blessing and your drivetrain will thank you.

 

So you have a 10-sec car if you focus on those 2 areas.

 

 

Mike (the other Mike) ,

 

I apologize for my comments on the dyno. If other people see the benefit, go for it, although I do not recall seeing anyone else supporting the idea. I am firm believer that the only use of dyno output is to compare results of the passes on that session only. I just see too many comments that indicate people are using it to compare one person's HP to another with no regard for variables. Having a SupraTT owner tell me their car makes 1000rwhp on the dyno means absolutely squat to me when their ET was not even close to mine with a measly 520 (estimated). I will leave my personal bias out of this from this point on.

[Guest zfan]

Scottie or Mike,

 

You said to lock up the converter. I have a lock up switch I manually lock up when on the hiwhway in O/D. I did not think I could lock it up in third gear? S If I am understanding you correctly your saying to manually lock up the converter when I shift into drive/3rd at the track?

 

Sorry to sound dumb but I do not know much about the O/D trannies. I swapped it out because my 4 speed manual tranny was killing me. My friend has his controlled hydraulically (is this even a real word). When he shifts into O/D it locks up automatically.

 

Mike

[titanium]

Zfan what compression ratio is your motor? I have a somewhat similar setup and I'm trying to guess what kind of power I'm going to get before she goes on the dyno.

[Guest 73TPIZ]

Somewhere i read told me how to wire my 700R4 to where it now always is locked in OD and I have a switch that will lock it up in 2nd and 3rd when i want. The internal wiring is designed so it can't lock up in 1st. Can't remember where i got the wiring kit from but Bowtie Overdrives mentions it here with their kit.

 

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=O

 

Heres a quote from a paragragh.

_________________________________________________________________

 

"Our wiring kits provide automatic fourth gear only converter clutch lock up (engagement) and automatic unlock (disengagement) whenever the transmission is not in the overdrive (fourth) gear position. Our optional manual switch control allows the converter clutch to also be engaged in second or third gears whenever the driver chooses by the simple activation of the On/Off switch. Each of our kits can be installed in under an hour. Take a look at the descriptions below to see which kit you need."

_________________________________________________________________

 

 

I can tell the car's ~2 tenths and ~2mph faster when i lock it up in 2nd and 3rd at the track. I assumed it did this because my 305 likes the low RPM's because it has the TPI induction on it (more Torque than HP). I currently shift at 5200 and i only slow down if I try shifting any higher than that or have the convertor unlocked (~400 rpm higher at the line). But the lockup in 2nd and 3rd may also help on a HP motor, I dunno.

[dmanzo57]

> I picked up 25hp on the dyno by locking the converter.

 

> Locking the converter will net me at least .2 and 2-3+mph in the ET.

 

I could have used this knowledge the day I ran 11.16 @ 122.

[Scottie-GNZ]

You said to lock up the converter. I have a lock up switch I manually lock up when on the hiwhway in O/D. I did not think I could lock it up in third gear? S If I am understanding you correctly your saying to manually lock up the converter when I shift into drive/3rd at the track?

 

Mike

I do not know enough about the 700 (had no need to) so I hope I do not pass on any misinformation. Not sure why the 700 should work any differently from the 200 so use this info with a grain of salt.

 

The 200 as setup in the GN receives a signal from the ECM when 45mph is reached in 4th. This signal essentially grounds the TCC solenoid to lock the converter. The ground signal runs through the brake switch so stepping on the brake will break the ground and unlock the converter. The converter also unlocks if a downshift from 4th occurs. So, simply running the TCC solenoid ground through a manual switch such that when the switch is not activated it does not hamper the 4th gear lockup, also allows you to ground the TCC solenoid on demand. As Charles stated, it will not lock in 1st gear. I simply manually lock the converter in 3rd at a point where the RPM drop will not take the engine out of the torque range. How much the RPMs drop depends on how much slip is on the converter. A lot of turbo guys activiate the switch at the line and lockup occurs right after the 1-2. This will definitely bog the engine down but the Buick turbo engine loves that as it puts the engine under more load. Probably not recommended on an N/A, especially one with a 700 as the 700 has an undesirable 1-2 gear spacing with more RPM drop.

 

Test it by putting the shifter in 3rd to avoid the 3-4 and activate the switch after the 2-3 in just normal driving. You should see the RPMs drop slightly and feel almost like another shift. If that works then try it about 2 secs after a 2-3 WOT shift and see if it makes any difference. Again, the less slip in the converter, the less you will feel it.