v80z Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 Ok I have searched and still need an answer. Having never put together a sbc I am wondering how far the balancer needs to go on before it is in? Right now the inside shoulder of the dampner is about 1/4 inch from the timing cover seal. The snout of the crank is still about 3/4 from being flush with the outside plane of the dampner. IS it in all the way? The timing cover seal is not flush with the timing cover and lacks about 1/8 inch from being flush with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 The balancer goes on until the balancer snout bottoms out on the timing gear on the crank. If you are using a balancer installer, which you should, you will feel a slight resistance when it bottoms out, if you go further you will break off the pilot in the crank. I know I've broken 2, and had custom tool steel ones made at a local machine shop. If you are beating it on with a hammer and a brass plate, block of wood, or something else, when you get finished with the 4 lb hammer, go to the 8 lb, then the 16 lb. Beat on it till the crank comes out the back of the block and then you'll be sure it's where it needs to be. Just kidding, it makes a definately different sound and it quits moving when it bottoms out, if you happen to be putting it on that way, although that is not the recommended way, but thousands are installed that way and, yup, I've done it myself on the side of the road once. Never, Never hit the balancer directly with the hammer, it modifies the grain structure of the cast balancers and they may crack. Steel balancers are alittle different, but still you shouldn't hit them directly with any hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Not to mention that if you beat on the balancer with a hammer and block of wood you will mess up your thrust bearing for the crankshaft! Not recommended.....unless your on the side of the road! LOL Either borrow an installer or buy one. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v80z Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 thanks Dr Hunt. I took the timing cover off and installed the balancer with the snout against the timing gear and the took some measurements with a caliper. I appreciate the input. Oh yeah using my old 23 mm socket from the L28 competition dampener bolt ( recommended for euro dampener )and a 4 lb hammer for install and a puller to uninstall. God I cant believe how cheap parts are for SBC. Why have I been swimming up river for the past 5 years. Racing an L28 while not as expensive as some definately is more costly than the heart beat of America. Anyway thanks again. Oh yeah with the hammer it is a slight tap in. Just need the 4lb mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Well as Grumpy says..."you may not notice any thing right away but chances are you will down the road," I still dont recommend installing with a hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Well as Grumpy says..."you may not notice any thing right away but chances are you will down the road," I still dont recommend installing with a hammer. I agree. I bought an installer/puller tool from Summit for not too much money and I can use it whenever I feel like pulling the balancer off...yet again! Seriously, I'm glad I bought the tool even if I only use it several times. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 these tools are cheap(about $30) and well worth the money, Id HIGHLY ADVISE DOING THE JOB CORRECTLY, BUY the TOOL! but if you insist, an old head stud can be used most big block cranks are threaded 7/16 nf , most small blocks are threaded 1/2 20 NF youll need to find a fully threaded 7/16" nf or 1/2 20 NF stud about 6" long, install the ballancer by hand as far as it slides on, now thread in the stud untill it bottoms out, slide on the damper retaining washer ,a dozen large fender washers, squirt with oil and install the nut, now tighten the nut slowly to force the washer stack against the damper untill it slides on. heres a good place to look, or try EBAY http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Harmonic-Balancer-Installer-SKT92514.html http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2899/Moroso-Harmonic-Balancer-Tools.htm Harmonic Balancer Installer Item No. - 46040 Don't risk altering the crankshaft end play by pounding the harmonic balancer into place! This tool supplies the steady force needed to correctly mount the Balancer on the crankshaft. The 8 adaptors (7/16"x20", 1/2"x20", 9/16"x18", 5/8"x18, 3/4"x16, 12mmx1.50, 14mmx1.50, 16mmx2.0) will fit both domestic and foreign cars. Requires 1 1/4" capacity wrench. Replacement adapters available (7/16" x 20). Limited 1 year warranty. Regular Price: $31.99 having gone thru this several times , Ill point out a few things, (1) the stripped threads are surely caused by trying to pull the damper in place using the bolt, (bad idea) you NEED to use the correct tool look at the picture carefully the small 7/16 thread ,on the tool threads into the crank, the damper slips over the tool, the large washer style bearing slips over the tool followed by the solid washer followed by the large nut that threads on the tool, the back of the tool is normally a 9/16 or 5/8 hex this is held with a box end wrench to keep the engine from turning, the large nut is usually a 1 1/8" nut and it is tightened with an open end 1 1/8" wrench or a adjustable wrench against the two washers drawing the damper onto the crank snout! lube the threads on the tool, the inside of the damper and crank snout with oil before starting. the damper will normally slide on about 1/4 of the way bye hand then the tool is needed to draw the damper on the last 3/4 of the distance, don,t over tighten the tool the 7/16" thread will snap off in the crank after the damper bottoms out on the lower timing gear if you do!, NEVER USE A HAMMER AND BLOCK OF WOOD TO DRIVE THE DAMPER ON, YES THOUSANDS OF GUYS THINK THEY DID IT WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS BUT... IT WILL DAMAGE THE THRUST BEARING CLEARANCES, IT CAN BREAK THE ELASTOMER TORSION RING ON STOCK DAMPERS IT CAN CAUSE THE INERTIAL RING ON FLUIDAMPER TO BECOME JAMMED INTERNALLY IT CAN CAUSE THE DAMPER TO FAIL. IF THE DAMPER FAILS THE CRANK WILL EVENTUALLY BE DAMMAGED IT GREATLY STRESSES THE CRANK SHAFT IT CAN DAMAGE THE CRANKS TRANSMISSION PILOT BEARING IT CAN DAMAGE THE TRANSNSMISSION ALMOST EVERY TYPE OF DAMAGE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOWS UP RIGHT AWAY, BUT IT WILL DAMAGE THE PARTS LISTED AND THERES THOUSANDS OF GUYS THAT ARE WONDERING WHY THOSE PARTS FAILED 6-24 MONTHs LATER WITH NO CLUE AS TO THE CAUSE! [bASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION, IF CRANKSHAFTS THAT ARE A FEW THOUSANDS OUT OF LINE I.E. NOT PERFECTLY STRAIT ARE BENT/STRAITEND WITH A LEAD HAMMER BY CRANK MANUFACTURES (and yes thats how its done) AND CRANKS THAT ARE DROPPED ON A CONCRETE FLoOR SOMETIMES BEND SLIGHTLY ,(happens all the time) WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT BEATING ON THEM WITH A HAMMER AND A BLOCK OF WOOD WONT DAMMAGE THEM? AND WHILE WERE AT IT WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO SOME GUY YOU CAUGHT BEATING ON YOUR ENGINE BLOCK WITH A HAMMER? WELL WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CRANKS DOING TO YOUR MAIN CAPS WHEN YOU BEAT ON THE CRANK? PROPERLY USED THAT INSTALLATION TOOL CAN EXCERT OVER 15 TONS OF PRESSURE TO SLIDE THE DAMPER ON, IF IT WONT SLIDE ON, THERES A PROBLEM! FIND IT AND FIX IT .....DON,T BEAT ON THE DAMPER/CRANK (2) you can easily RE-DRILL and RE-THREAD the crank from the 1/2"NF to the 7/16 NF thread used on big block cranks and use a bbc bolt if you strip a sbc crank,AND TO THOSE ASKING WHY THE FIT IS SO TIGHT first let me point out that theres a DESIGNED CLEARANCE RANGE of manufacturing tollerances and if its not the factory original ballancers theres an excellent chance the ballancers internal dimension does not match the crank snouts outside dia.....next I need to point out its DESIGNED to be a slight interfearance fit, it it just slides on it will not be as effective at absorbing crank harmonics if theres ANY SLACK and only the crank KEY keeps it from turning, it takes a very tight fit to act as DESIGNED, now that being said, theres no reason that it needs to be excessively difficult to install and a BRAKE HONE used to open up the internal dia. slightly is perfectly exceptable, as is placing the damper in hot (not boiling)water top expand the internal dia. and oiling the crank snout before installation. or packing it in a bag of DRY ICE,to contract its dia. but using the correct tool makes a huge differance in how hard they go on! 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Guest zfan Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Very good information as usual! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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