Now.........The Rear Hubs

[tonycharger72]

Im in the process of figuring out what im going to do with my rear hubs and possibly the half-shafts,

 

Im thinking of 3 options,

 

1 - Re-drill the rear hubs and use something like the S13/14 rear caliper, solid disc and the mechanical handbrake linkage or a XF Ford Falcon PBR rear caliper and vented disc with mechanical handbrake

 

2 - Bore-out the Rear struts and use Z31 turbo rear hubs and with this use the later z31 rear brakes with the internal handbrake,

BUT...........if i do this and stick with stock 260z half-shafts, what mods do i need to do to get the half-shafts to mate up with the Z31 hubs?

Then..........if i went to Z31 half-shafts, does anyone know if i have to shorten them work with the Z31 hubs,

Then finally, is there is any change in offset if i use the Z31 rear hubs?

3 - Do the same as above but use Z32 NA stuff,

The major issues i think i have with this one is,

1 - What will be the change in offset

2 - Is there enough meat on the rear struts to bore them out to accomdate the Z32 hubs, as i assume the Z32 hubs have a larger diameter than the Z31 hubs???

[S15 200sx owner]

Check out this thread

 

[S15 200sx owner]

I too have been wanting to machine out the guts of the Z hub and attempt to fit the Z32 or R32 GTR skyline bolt in rear hubs, then run the out Stubbed outer Cv from the same vehicle.

[tonycharger72]

Thanks champ, ill had a look through that thread, but it dosent seem to answer my specific questions, well sorta,

 

From what i could gather,

Jamiet was,

Installing an r230 diff, then using 300zxtt CV's and mating this to "custom short Moser axle shafts",

Then using the 300zxtt rear hubs, which to do so he had to gut his original Zed rear struts, but he didnt do this, he looked as if he kinda made new ones, and by doing this he was able to retain the stock zed offset on the rear wheels (ie...kept the track stock),

 

But what i was wondering was, if you didnt almost make new rear struts and you just drilled the buggers out to except the bigger Z31 or Z32 hubs is this a good idea?

Some folks ive spoken to said, nope not enough meat for it to be a good idea,

Other folks have said (well one person), "yes ive done it and it works fine",

 

Also,

What are the changes in offset if you do manage to stuff the Z31 or Z32 hubs in the rear struts,

I would imagine the the rear track must increase just because of the rotor sizes (their heights) are quite a bit larger than the 1984-85 rotor (47mm VS 57 & 63mm),

This is just an assumption...........

[260DET]

Recall a Japanese site showing step by step how to fit Z31 5 stud stubs to S30 hubs. A while ago though, seemed fairly straight forward at the time, some machining

[BlackBeaut]

I've been working on a Z32 hub conversion idea (amongst a million other things), in fact a machinist has had my plans for nearly 3 weeks now, I should probably see how he's getting on. My approach is slightly different to Jamie's and I'll end up with a slight (3/4") increase in offset. It does involve extreme metal removal from the stock hub mounting area and then welding (uh-oh!) on a new piece that acts as the adapter - the Z32 hub will bolt to that and it has the caliper mounting bolts. In theory it will work but until I get the machined parts back and really look at what is left over after machining the strut carrier I won't really know.

 

What ever source hub though Z32, Skyline, 200SX it will be necessary to use matching CV joints with custom shafts to correct their length and most likely one of the short nose R200 or R230 diffs in the middle so the diff output shafts match the CVs. The Z31 is a different kettle of fish as it's much closer in design to the early Z stub axle so should be a lot simpler in concept. I think I've seen that Japanese site 260DET mentions too but can't remember the URL, sorry.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[tonycharger72]

Blackbeaut, like to see how this turns out mate, post some pics when you get your gear back, ive spoken to a few Zed folks locally and most of em said they never went down the road of installing Z32 or Z31 rear hubs because they never like the idea of machining up the rear hubs for the larger diameter hubs,

 

260DET, dont suppose you got a link mate?

 

Ive found a bloke in Australia who used the Z31 half shafts with R200 diff and Z31 rear hubs,

 

He machined the rear struts to suit the Z31 hubs, the original diameter was 70mm, this needed to be taken out to 72mm to suit the Z31 hubs, then he just slipped the Z31 hubs in and was then able to use (or he said this was the plan) to use Z31, Z32 & R32 rear brakes,

Then was basically able to mate these hubs straight up the Z31 rear half shafts, he used Z31 bearings,

 

Which if it worked like this, would be a pretty damm simple upgrade when you think about it,

 

Just go out and grab the,

Half-shafts from a Z31,

1986-89 Z31 Hubs

1986-on Z31, Z32 or R32 rear brakes with internal handbrake (the Z32 and R32 use the same rear brakes),

Then,

Machine out the rear struts to suit the Z31 hubs, grab the bearings from a 1986-on Z31 and use them with the Z31 hubs in your 240/260/280 zed struts,

 

Then just connect everything up,

 

End up with very stout half-shafts with CV's and not UNI's, no adapters needed with much much much better rear brakes then most others, a 297mm by 20mm vented rotor, 2-piston Caliper and internal handbrake,

 

Only three catches that i can see,

 

1 - Half-shaft length, this may require modification, which could be expensive,

 

2 - Whether or not its a good idea to take meat out of the rear Zed struts to accomodate the rear Z31 hubs

 

3 - The change in rear track by using the Z31 hubs, But im not 100% certain, but i would be pretty confident that doing it this way would almost certainly increase your rear track, just because the rear rotor is alot taller than if you used the 47mm solid Rotor from a 1984-85 Z31, as the rotor is taller but the caliper still pretty much mounts to where the backing plate is the offset of the hub would have to be further out to accomodate the larger rotor, again just an assumption,

[260DET]

No linky sorry Rather than machine out hubs it may be possible to get different size from stock bearings that will fit.

[tonycharger72]

"No linky sorry Rather than machine out hubs it may be possible to get different size from stock bearings that will fit."

 

Dont think this will work mate, just because the bloke who did the above conversion said he spent some time looking about for suitable bearings and didnt come up with any other options then re-boring the struts and fitting Z31 bearings,

 

But it would be worthwhile to have a captain cook in a bearing shop

[rp975]

Hi Tony,

 

Is this the link?

 

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~satotats/zhp/z17p/index.htm

 

 

 

First first, the hub must be produced outside 8mm.

Then, the spacer of the aluminum is made between the hub and the

bearing.(Translated from Japanese)

 

 

I have translated the text under each photo, so where there are a few lines gap it is the next photo.

 

 

 

As for the spacer of the aluminum the genuine way way the rubbish and

the water do not enter in the bearing,

Just 0 and 5 mm you take clearance in the place where the

bearing enters and produce.

 

When the bearing is inserted, it becomes this way.

 

Naturally, it meaning that either gong plain gauze side does not

become the 8mm not stuffing て, it processes the hub.

In order for the spline to remain, at the same time pressing in to the

bearing, as been able to maintain strength, it processes.

That and, the hub is R31 gong plain gauze diversion special it has

producing in the friend.

 

The bearing adjusting comes exactly middle.

 

The rear license plate originally in this kind of way, but.

Center, the part where the hub enters is expanded,

It adjusts to the position of S30Z with 2 place long hole

processing and 2 place new establishments.

 

 

The hub is produced outside and is last and the rotor enters, it set

to the kind of size where but height of the hat with problem

Because it is the last line which cannot put out either the hub

above this, the part where the Indian ram of the rotor reverse side

enters

The ear is deleted and the space is made. The part where color

has changed, it meaning that the ear is about 5 mm, it deleted that.

In addition, size of rotor R34GT-R? N1 size it meaning that in presser

is 316 mm vis-a-vis 322mm

About 3 mm it stuffed also rotor outer circle at diameter, the

caliper - it bevelled the part which hits with リューター.

 

In leaving, this time offset 3mm of the rotor is not agreeable.

(マジ it does or)

The caliper - the stay 3mm probably will be pulled or, between

the hub and the rotor the spacer and the like

You thought, but after all being to be problem large strength

and to be, 3 days you were troubled, removing the rear license plate

(Nearly 10 times it unites at this point in time and/or removes

the drum......)

The reinforcement of 5mm the good れ て clamp face 3mm is

pulled on the reverse side.

When clearing... with you think with this

 

 

When the side wire is attached, the wire is pulled, you install and

direct bomb hit, cannot pull the lever in bolt (laughing)

Whether one basis unconcern you tried probably not to be able to

conceive, but with the thunder thickness of the head of volt/bolt

shaving included

Once, because torque caught, it does well with this and with

does.

It understand does that color of the volt/bolt which exactly to the

place of the lever is different?

 

 

Conception 3 minute (you happened to think and the Bali Bali) job 3

month (laughing) perfect were attached! !

 

End is the side wire. The side wire comes out of this position.

It is clearance of the rotor and the rear license plate, you think

that you understand.

 

The variety it hit, but after all in presser and connecting S30

genuine, it produces.

It is the drum of the wire, but when it makes with caulking, there is

a self-confidence which it comes out with room, (laughing)

When it keeps shaving genuine, being to be the kind of feeling

which melts the aluminum

The split pin of suitable size in order the inserting

accompanying to enter in completely, low was attached to the point of

the wire.

When those which it produces are shaved because it has unified

completely, you think that there is no problem.

 

Being the drum bitterly to be possible, it reuses the S30Z genuine

part there.

The wire installation part of body side is pressed in to the wire of

in presser which cuts off length together for the second time.

 

As for link itself of the side wire you used genuine and produced the

wire installation part with the aluminum.

Perfect it was settled in the range which can be adjusted for the

second time. The side is effective with 2 notches

 

The front caliper - is. Pulling the plan, it had making the stay in

the friend.

It is the aluminum make, but being to produce with the material which

has the strength like the iron it is relief.

 

 

Because the rotor is produced with putting, in order for the rotor to

enter, hub outer circle is processed.

The rotor being to be for R33GT-R is OK with 4 hole processing and hub

Enlargement

 

 

After installing, the caliper - changing to size, you laughed. Such

there is no necessity, the shank (suicide bombing)

 

When lastly, the wheel is attached, the wheel balancer which has been

upholstered - weight hit......

When above 10g you attach, the caliper - direct bomb hit... the

people who are holding, the stomach until you say, you have not

laughed.

[tonycharger72]

Well done mate, your a legend

[BlackBeaut]

But it would be worthwhile to have a captain cook in a bearing shop

 

Blimey, Aussie rhyming slang!! Whatever next?!! You'll have the boys down Whitechapel up in arms I tell you!!

 

At least it makes a bit more sense than "Naturally, it meaning that either gong plain gauze side does not become the 8mm not stuffing." You gotta love translation software

 

Cheers,

Rob

[tonycharger72]

"When above 10g you attach, the caliper - direct bomb hit... the

people who are holding, the stomach until you say, you have not

laughed."

 

This was the best one

 

 

Blame my old man, hes full on them - mates look at me sometimes like i should be out catching crocodiles

[260DET]

Ripper tune, beauty bottler mate, the ants pants

[S15 200sx owner]

Hey Rob & Tony

 

I am really keen to see how you both get on with this, I will be looking into how i will do this conv to my car very shortly, I wil be picking up the complete rear end from the R32 GTR very soon, then play time

 

Keep us posted guys.

 

Rob, hows your rear cradel coming along?

[BlackBeaut]

Rob, hows your rear cradel coming along?

 

I've buggered my back and an old whiplash injury has flared up so I'm staggering around like an 80year old who's lost his Zimmer frame, colour me happy!! So no Z car messing has been going on for a while. Which also means I still can't weld. I'll get there one of these days mate, honest guv!

 

Cheers,

Rob

[rp975]

Here are some pictures of Z31 & 260z rear axles, I will get back with some measurements soon,my friend came over last night, he works for SKF, and he is looking into poss bearings for swap.

I had to take the rear suspension out to get the stub axles out.

The rear housing wall thickness is 5mm where the outer bearing fits, to give you an idea if the housing has to be machined to fit the Z31 bearing, that would remove 1mm from each side leaving 4mm wall thickness.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3597

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3596

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3595

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3594

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3593

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3592

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3591http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3590

 

Rob

[rp975]

I hope that this is not too confusing.

 

 

The bearings on the 260z stub are both the same , inner & outer. Whereas on the Z31 the outer bearing is larger inside & outside diameter than the 260z one,( and also wider 22mm compared with 17.4mm 260z) and the inner bearing is smaller outside and larger inside than 260z.

So in any case there will have to be a different bearing for the inside of the axle which will have the outside diameter of the 260z and the inside if the Z31 bearing.

 

With the outside bearing if we can’t get a bearing with the outside dia of the 260z and the inside of the Z31 there are two options.

1, to machine out the housing 2mm in Diameter (it has a wall thickness of 5mm so 1mm less each side is probably OK) or 2, to machine the stub axle down to the size of the 260z(35mm down to 31.6mm)

 

These are rough dimensions :

 

260z

Both inner & outer bearings

 

Outside dia = 69.9mm

Inside dia = 31.6mm

Width = 17.4mm

 

Z31

Outside bearing (double row ball race)

 

Outside dia = 72mm

Inside dia = 35mm

Width = 22mm

 

Inner bearing

 

Outside dia = 62mm

Inside dia = 29.9mm

Width = 16mm

 

Also when looking at the axle from the side, the distance from the outside of the hub (where the wheel bolts) to the inside edge of the outside bearing is 43mm on the Z31 and 40.5mm on the 260z.

 

Rob

[260DET]

Thats good Rob, very well explained

[zcarnut]

Here’s what I did to fit the Z31 stub axle into an S30 strut housing:

 

After a futile search for bearings that would work without machine work, I bored the strut housing where the bearings fit out from 70.0 to 72.0mm. My machinist was able to do this on a lathe to ensure a precise cut. I used a 6306 type bearing (ID = 30mm,OD = 72mm,T = 19mm) for the inner bearing and a type 6207 (ID = 35mm,OD = 72mm,T = 17mm) for the outer bearing. You can also use the stock Z31 outer bearing (same as a 6207) if you want to. Be sure to use sealed bearings especially on the outer one. For the inner bearing oil seal I obtained a CR 15857 seal (40mm x 72mm x7mm) which worked very nicely.

 

I reused the S30 bearing spacer after it was modified by increasing the inside diameter so it could fit on the tapered Z31 stub axle. Another option is to reduce the height of the Z31 bearing spacer to match the S30 one.

 

I used the Z31 non turbo companion flange along with the 280ZX turbo CV axles to complete the swap.

 

...Also when looking at the axle from the side, the distance from the outside of the hub (where the wheel bolts) to the inside edge of the outside bearing is 43mm on the Z31 and 40.5mm on the 260z......Rob

 

I measured 3.0 mm difference after everything was re-assembled. I just shimmed the Maxima rear caliper bracket (I intended to use) out with washers and everything lined up OK.

 

BTW, Nissan beefed up the rear strut housing on the 260Z and the 280Z. These would be a better choice for modification rather than the 240Z one.