VG33ER - questions

[Guest spike]

Hello all, new to this board, but am impressed with the few hybridz's I've seen in person.

 

So a few people have discussed the VG33ER (edit- 3.3 supercharged) swap into a Z31, but looks like it never made it past the thought stage.

Does anyone have a resource for used motors of this kind? I've spent many nights looking through the internet, and found pretty much nothing.

 

My VG30E is still running strong, but when I do any motor work it'll need a rebuild, so I'm looking for a whole motor to build up and drop in. I know there will be the usual custom fabrication to make the swap a success, and the troubleshooting, but I'd rather do this then the typical turbo swap.

 

If anyone knows of someone who had done this I'm very interested in picking their brain, and if anyone has a good lead for this motor I'd appreciate it.

 

 

Thanks. spike

[mtcookson]

Really, you'll have a lot more potential with a turbo VG especially since the supercharger on the VG33ER is a bit small. Even if it was the bigger model I think the turbo would still do better. It really just depends on what you want though. If you're just wanting a s/c Z just to say you have one or if you're wanting to go for tons of power or something else.

[Guest Jason84NA-T]

I hate to say this... but roots type superchargers flat out SUCK. Especially the Gen3 Eaton M90 used on the VG33ER. They reach peak effeciency at something like 8 PSI, which translates into a VERY limited power potential. I know of one person running a M90 on his Z, and it is mounted onto the top of the stock plenum using an adapter plate. While it's flat out cool to see it sticking out of the hood and obstructing your view of the road (and it sounds cool), it won't make nearly as much power as an appropriately sized turbo.

 

To put it in perspective, let's use a common car like the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (and because I have one). These also use the Eaton M90, and run relatively low boost pressures. A common modification is to put on a smaller pulley to crank the boost to ~15+PSI, intercooler, injectors, re-programmed PCM and AFC, intake, headers and full exhaust resulting in good gains (around 280-300WHP). A ZZP turbo kit installed and using about the same boost pressure puts almost 400HP to the wheels, with extra headroom!

 

Either adapt a centrifugal unit to do something like drive off the AC belt where the compressor sat (sits?) or do a turbo swap. The turbo swap information on my website you may find useful.

 

I don't want you to think people are spouting a bunch of jargon at you about going turbo. Quite simply it is the best and easiest way to make power on just about any car. The only real advantage to a supercharger is in the extreme low-end and faster response, hence the reason it made sense for a turck.

[2003z]

It also makes sense for autocross and track work. The lowend pull is awesome.

 

I've installed the stillen M62 on my 350Z and have installed a Vortech kit on my friends 350Z. While his output with the centrifugal is 420hp and mine is only 340, the driving characteristics are totally different, and I wouldn't trade mine for his any day. I get a pull as soon as I hit the gas, that pretty much stays flat til redline, his starts of with less punch, but just continually builds boost to redline. To me, mine feels faster, even though his might be faster.

[Guest Jason84NA-T]

To me, mine feels faster, even though his might be faster.

 

right, yours FEELS faster because it has faster response. Lots of cars are like this. My GTP feels fast through traffic and whatnot because power is instant and it makes buttloads of torque, but at the track it can't even turn triple-digit trap speeds (13.9@99). I won't at all deny the advantages of a supercharger in that respect, however, the simple fact that there are almost no high-end race cars with a supercharger (much less a roots type) as a means of forced induction.

 

This is an age-old debate, but it simply boils down to the turbocharger being a more effective means of making power.

[Guest spike]

Thanks for the educated input. I want to track my car to see what it pulls just for fun, but the majority of my driving is in the city. So the low end response and off the line power is what I'm looking for.

 

 

But, perhaps it'd be easier and smarter to build up a VG30 and find a good supercharger to put on then trying to find a 3 year old motor that would still need 'customizing'.

[mtcookson]

Especially the Gen3 Eaton M90 used on the VG33ER.

I thought the VG33ER used a M62. Pretty sure its something smaller than the M90.

 

I know of one person running a M90 on his Z, and it is mounted onto the top of the stock plenum using an adapter plate.

 

Does it happen to be this car?

 

 

 

 

 

I'd personally take a roots over a centrifugal simply due to the centrifugal s/c not reaching peak boost to redline, that really hurts mid-range performance and on top of that centrifugal s/c's have lag. the best positive displacement s/c is a screws though. one of those would probably be a lot harder to find than a eaton s/c though.

 

either way, i personally will never go the s/c route. turbos are so superior in nearly every way that there's just no point. even the largest trucks that require tons of low end power use turbos. when you think of a good truck to pull a vehicle around you'll probably think of a chevy duramax diesel truck, a dodge ram with a cummins, or a ford with a powerstroke.

 

most of the problems you hear about them is due to people not setting them up correctly. it seems too many people just slap on a turbo without any research and hope that they will get tons of power as well as good spooling and this simply isn't the case. you must match the turbo with the engine as well as what you're wanting to do with it. if you want to autocross get yourself a smaller turbo that will spool instantly and give you decent power to get around the track.

 

if you want a road course type car get yourself a mid sized turbo that spools about midway in the rpm's and can give pretty high power around the track.

 

if you want a drag car get yourself a turbo that has a compressor big enough to supply the air you want with a turbine small enough to still flow enough yet spool pretty quick. even if it spools half way through the rpm's you generally don't have to worry about that if you have a two-stage rev limiter. you can sit on the line and hit the first limiter which will spool the turbo pretty well to where you have boost right off the line.

[premo-s12]

the simple fact that there are almost no high-end race cars with a supercharger (much less a roots type) as a means of forced induction.

 

clicky

 

 

i know its not a 'track car', but thats pretty F-in fast

[Alex_V]

Turbos were also banned as they were too fast.

 

~Alex

[premo-s12]

oh, ok. fair nuff then

[premo-s12]

to ad a bit to this thread...buy yourself an xterra or frontier blower and the plenum. it WILL bolt up. the only problem will be your pulley situation at the VG33ER crank pulley will not bolt up. ill ad more to this when i have more info im going this route as its the only option i have in my S12 due to lack of space under the hood. there's simply NO where to fit a charger under the hood unless i want to remote mount the damn thing...adn no thx, ill pass!! ill post some pics soon

[Alex_V]

Was that your S12 with it sticking out of the hood? Looked like there was plenty for a turbo or 2 some where under hood. (says the guy that is going to put a VQ30DE in with T22s of a Z32....)

 

Any way sounds like a cool project. Crap now your making me want an S12...

 

Do you need a serpentine style belt? Try a maxima pulley. Anything with a VG30 and the right style belt should work.

 

~Alex

[premo-s12]

hehe, s12's are fun. i have mad love for the Z31 but more for the S12 just due to the curb weight being substantially less. the rear end is the same, the front is a tad different (280zx suspension) but not a whole lot. the weight balance is near 50/50 even with the VG, etc, etc...only stitch is there's minimal room to work with under the hood where as there's a grip of space in a Z31 more or less they handle just like a Z31 only lighter and more nimble

 

this is my car i think the car you're thinking of (the one down below) is a Z31. if memory servers its some guy back in louisiana or something, dont recal exactly

 

at the moment tho it looks like this, im probably gonna take that thing off tho as i think it makes it look to much like a vette and just let the thing stick out of the hood

 

i aborted that project (the M90) as it was just an uber pain in the ass. i got all my mounting hardware and everything sorted out, but the damn thing was gonna be WAY to tall and look WAY illegal as well!! not to mention my plumbing problems, the whole size, etc, etc. this M62 will sit low in the bay, sticks out maybe 2-3". im not sure what im gonna do about the belts. ill post pics when i have it sorted out and ready for install in the car. as of now im sorting out my engine, cams (still looking around for a good grind, ideas?), flywheel, clutch, fuel management (going with the merc injectors, cheap!), etc, etc. at anyrate, which yrs of maxima have the serpentine? i could always do a quick run to the yard this weekend!

[NissanSportMag(Z31)]

The curb weight of the S12 V6 isn't that much different than an 84/85 NA Z31. About 100 lbs lighter.

 

The Z31 with that supercharger stuck on top was done by a 15 (yes, I said 15) year old kid in Missouri. (They recently moved to Oklahoma). He had some help from his father, but it was mostly just helping him with direction. At least 90% of the work was done by the son.

 

Those pictures were taken at the 2005 Branson Z Fest.

[mtcookson]

BZF was pretty fun that year but I didn't have a Z at the time (that was running at least). Went anyways and saw that crazy thing. I can't remember what kind of times it ran though. Still pretty interesting seeing a setup like that.

[premo-s12]

pardon my ignorance, but whats the curb weight of a Z31? i was under the impression that it was somewhere in the ballpark of 3200-3300?! at any rate, 100# is 100#

 

missouri! thats right. a buddy of mine has seen the car a few times. from what i can tell from the pics, that thing sticks out WAAY to far for my tastes, but whatever. i talked to him a while back actually...he posts on z31 from time to time. he runs a 13.3

 

oh yea, mines also stripped down to 2 seats, a dash board and a stearing wheel. its not the lady getter LoL id like to get her to the scales as im curious what she weighs now, feels to be a grip less then my Z31

[NissanSportMag(Z31)]

Depends on the year. The early Z31s weighed in at around 3000 lbs. Once you started getting into the later years and added t-tops, leather, and other options, you could get up to about 3200 lbs. It's the Z32s that really got fat. But they got a lot more power to move them around.

 

The 13.3 was before he had the supercharger on it and when he was only on nitrous. At BZF, the car never made a good pass. The first run was a shakedown run to get used to the track. It still moved pretty darn quick though. The second run, he went for it and snapped a halfshaft or stub axle on the launch. Sadly, once you start making a lot of power and get good traction, you break stuff easily.

[premo-s12]

aaah...ok. yea, i know the Z32 was a bit of a pig, but i just assumed all the Z31's were in the 3200 range.

 

huh, i could'a swore on his profile on z31.com it said he ran a 13.3 with the blower. maybe i read it wrong. damn, i need to know now!

[OlderThanMe]

I have a 2004 frontier with a VG33E and it pulls pretty good...until 3k, My tranny is a close ratio 5 speed with a tall rear end gear. Definitely good for something like autoX or rally...unless you do some serious cam and head work it won't rev very high.

 

Interesting thread guys...

[premo-s12]

im going to get my cams ground down. im looking around right now for a good grind/duration, etc. any input on this would be greatly appreciated

 

hey, i dont suppose you could take a pic of your pulley situation could you? or just a bunch of the front of the engine and a few good shots of the crank pulley? thats be awesome!