V3 EDIS-x installation, set up, etc.

[z-ya]

Anyone using MS V3 with a Ford EDIS system on an L6?

[Brad-ManQ45]

I'll be interested in this one too...

 

Although I don't see where you would really gain - the EDIS will control the (dwell)spark, not MS.

 

A better idea may be a waste spark system with V3.

 

I THINK all we need to do is put in a couple more VB921's and use a couple more outputs.

 

I'd be interested to know if my understanding is correct.

[z-ya]

The Ford EDIS system is wasted spark. Whats nice about it is the serial interface. One wire from teh trigger, and one wire to the EDIS unit. I know there are guys running them on other engines, just wonding if anyone has put the trigger wheel on an L-Series. You can get EDSI in 4, 6, and 8 cyl versions. This place is selling used junkyard units:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~beanbooger/boost_engineering/

[Brad-ManQ45]

Yes, EDIS is wasted spark, but ms doesn't control it. Using a couple more ignitors MS can directly control all facets of ignition....

[z-ya]

MS II can control any EDIS system. The EDIS sytem includes the iginter.

[Brad-ManQ45]

I'll state it a different way, all MS does w/EDIS is send it a signal, and EDIS controls the ignition events, including dwell.

 

By using a couple more chips, MS V3 with either MSnS_E or MSII can fully control all aspects of ignition.

[z-ya]

Yes the MSII sends it signal, and this signal contains the timing information. There is a slight processing delay, which can be nulled out using the trim adjustment in the MS and a timing light. Yes the dwell is controlled by the EDIS, which is fine, because it is optimized for the EDIS coils.

 

The problem is that when you use the distrbutor with MSII or MSnS_E, it limits your timing adjustment range. With a direct fire ignition with crank trigger (EDIS), you have complete control over timing. You can adjust the timing in ways that are not possible using a distributor.

[Bluto]

I have all my parts and am bench testing everything now, It will all go on the car after I get my wbo2 hooked up and running smoothly. This will all be run on ms&s extra.

 

Im also working on edis4 on 2 other ms cars so I am knee deep in ford ignition at the moment.

 

If noone else beats me to it I was going to offer up an out line for the setup to be posted, kind of a step by step from mobys setup to a running edis 6 motor.

 

Sam

[Brad-ManQ45]

That will be great.

[z-ya]

Thanks a bunch Sam. I'll be converting an L28 turbo to EDIS this winter, and could use some pointers.

[73hls30]

i am having the 36-1 wheel machined to a 81 crank pully. if the alt. and water pump pullys can be repositioned, then i just need to use the only v-belt grove on the balancer. without the original crank wheel and inner pully there is plenty of room for the exploder vr sensor and the wheel will be easy to adjust.

[73hls30]

the edis system works. i need to address a fuel leak issue before any street time, but the spark tests passed. i have a v2.2 board with 2.25b531 installed. the 81 turbo adjustment bracket with the explorer vr lined up perfectly with an adapter made out of a piece of sheet metal. relatively easy set-up.

[z-ya]

Thanks for the update. I hope to be firing mine up the next couple months.

[BRAAP]

Ok guys. I’m starting my MSnS-E install utilizing the ford EDIS-6 distributor less ignition parts on my “F” prepared SOLO-II auto cross Z car. I have been researching this EDIS ign for quite awhile and purchased two complete EDIS 6 systems, one for my race car, the other for a friends ZX project. I also purchased a complete EDIS-8 for my V-8 Z, and a complete EDIS-4 system for my good friends Datsun 510. Prices for all the EDIS parts, used, from the local “U-pull-it” wrecking yard ranged from $40 to $75 depending on who was manning the counter when I payed for it all. That included the Coil pack, EDIS Ignition module, VR sensor, 36-1 wheel, electrical connectors with approx 12”-24” of harness attached and even the plug wires. I commend Ford for locating all the EDIS ign parts in such a way all within the engine bay, that it now only takes me no longer than 15 minutes to pull the entire EDIS system for 6 cylinder set up, (even faster for the 4 cylinder) I pull the coil-pack from a 4.0L Exploder AND the damper and VR from a 1.9L Escort, and that includes the time to walk over to the Escort to pull those respective parts. To easy.

To make a long story short, I purchased several VR sensors, from the Escort, Ford Exploder, and also several ABS sensors as well from BMW, GM, Ford, and few others to experiment with different VR mounting ideas.

At this moment, I currently have my mock up Datsun 280Z damper machined down with a Ford Escort 36-1 trigger wheel pressed on. Almost looks factory. This set up renders the forward pulley of the 280-Z damper useless. For a race car or street car without A/C, no biggee.

These pics show current progress as of this afternoon including three of the VR sensors that I’m leaning towards, though not sure which I’ll utilize at this point.

Long term plans are to locate the VR sensor in the bell housing or steel backing plate between the engine and flywheel, and machine the 36-1 teeth into the flywheel itself. Ford had been doing for the European EDIS equipped cars for years apparently. I see it as way to clean up the front of the engine a bit.

I’ll update as I progress and will also show the progress for the 3 pulley ZX crank trigger and VR mount as well. It most likely wont be till mid to late summer before I look into the Flywheel crank trigger. Might do that on the V-8… Hmmm…

 

 

 

 

[z-ya]

Paul,

 

Great photos. This is exactly what I am planning for the supercharged L28 track 240Z I'm working on. We must be on the same wavelength or something because this is exactly how I was planning to do it. Machine off the outer pulley so the trigger wheel has a snug fit. Then align it with the trigger, and weld it in place. The only difference i that I will have a SC pully on the outside so I may locate the trigger wheel closer to the inside pully (up against it).

 

My trigger wheel is a little rough on the inside. Looks like it was cut with a plasma cutter. Did you clean up the inside of the trigger wheel before machining the pully to fit?

 

When deciding where to put the sensor, install an alternator, belt and water pump pully. I've done a couple of crank trigger setups, and you kind of forget where the belt is going to be. I plan on putting mine around 3 O'clock (from the front of engine).

 

Keep us updated, and I'll update my progress again soon.

 

Pete

[BRAAP]

My 36-1 wheel is also a bit rough on the ID, though it looks more like scuffing from being pressed on at the factory and my removing it from the Escort damper. My damper in those pics is just a junk mock up damper, I plan to throw it away and as such I machined the interference fit to only approx .0005”-.001”.

My race car has a brand new Nissan damper that I’ll machine down once I’m ready, but with a .006”-.007” interference fit. I don’t plan on welding mine as the damper and ring fit was .006”-.007” interference fit on the Ford Damper, (fingers crossed mine doesn’t come loose…).

As for the belts and ancillaries, Z-YA hit a very important part of fabricating… This is for ANYONE wanting to fabricate new additions to current configurations…

ALWAYS take into account EACH and EVERY possible ancillary, bracket, hose, belt, pulley, protruding bolt, etc, before you build a new bracket for something such as the VR sensor. If you leave even just one bolt out while mocking up, Inevitably you’ll put it your shiny new part right in the path of a belt, or a radiator hose, water pump pulley, etc.

As for mounting the VR, I’ll definitely take a look at he 3:00 position based on your recommendation for the standard Z set up. I would like to offer “36-1 trigger wheel and VR mount kits” in the future for those wanting to go DIS. My Race car is having the alternator relocated to the driver side so I can retain one of my Ron Davis Radiators, so I’ll likely mount this VR on the pass side and will try and utilize the original alternator mounts on the block for the bracket to hold the VR. I’ll dig more into that today, not sure how far I’ll get though. I’ll be sure to keep you posted and I’ll take lots of pics along the way.

Keep us posted on your progress, pics are always help…

[z-ya]

I'm not sure that I would rely on a press fit to hold the trigger wheel on, especially on a high RPM race motor. If it were to fly off on the track, it would cause some serious damage.

 

I have access to one of those rotating thingys for welding. You can set the RPM, and the part turns while the welding tip stays stationary. You can get a super smooth and controled circular weld.

[BRAAP]

Pete,

Hmm. Sounds like it might be a good idea. I know very little about welding so help me out here. Is powdered metal weld-able?

[z-ya]

I'm not a welding expert either, but a freind of mine is, and he will do all the welding (I may tack it in place to get the timing correct with my little Craftsman Mig welder).

 

I let you know how it works out.

[73hls30]

initially i thought of mounting the 36-1 wheel on the front of the balancer, but was worried about vibration problems. redrill the powersteering pully to repace the water pump pully, modify the lower alternator bracket to move the alternator foreward, flip the alternator top bracket for adjustment and the wheel can be mounted closer to the motor. the 81 a/c bracket has a nice stock adjustable bracket for the vr sensor to mount on. for my install the explorer sensor lined up better than the one off of the mustang.

 

hope this helps your installs.