RacerX Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Research shows that electric vehicles still have a long way to go before they're more efficiant than gas, due to natural resource consumption during electricity creation. I think it's a neat idea... but I think this is a BETTER idea. http://www.theaircar.com/ Granted it's power is crap, who cares! It's more more efficiant with energy than any electric motor. And no "charge time" compared to an electric. Just plug in, wait for the tank to fill, then go. Or you can fill up anywhere they have an air tank. Real nifty idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Until I see one I will be skeptical. Any site that has nothing but 3d solid modeling instead of real pics makes me wonder. If it works then it would indead be awesome. I guess it could have some sort of regenerative compression when going down hill and braking too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave88SS Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 no, this is the worlds fastest electric car: http://www.buckeyebullet.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 You takling to me innerware? becuase it DOES work. http://www.theaircar.com/tests.html The company has been big buzz in the UK lately. We'll probly be seeing them in the US in less than a decade methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuhow Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 You'll not be seeing "aircars" anytime soon. I used to work on electric vehicle batteries in the mid to late '90s. We made the battery for the "EPIC" mini van by chrylser. EPIC- that's "Electric Powered Interurban Commuter" only it had to be changed to "Electric Powered INTRAurban Commuter" because it only went 80 miles or so on a (5hr) charge. When you compress air, you lose A LOT of energy. At best you can get 12% efficiency from the compression, basically if you want 1 hp of air delivered, you need a 10 hp motor driving the compressor. The rest of the energy is lost to heat in the air. You are far, far better off burning gas or diesel. I agree it's a novell concept, but compressed air is way worse than batteries as an energy storage device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 racerx, so what is the cost per mile to drive the electric car? There is no free lunch, whether it's electric, air, propane, ethanol, whatever, there is no emissions granted from the electric car, but there are emissions from the coal and NG fired electric plants that produce the electricity. And of course there is always the nuke waste from the nuke plants as well. Did you all see the King of Saudi saying that the experts say that they have enough oil for another 70 years. Perfect, me and my boy can race till we're dust. Personally, I'm waiting Scotty to beam me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Wasn't talking to anyone in particular. I am always skeptical over new products that don't offer any real pics though. Being in product design and development I know for a fact that this is an easy way for companies to try and prove a concept before anything working is produced. I have friends who do it for a living creating solidworks animations in the initial early stages of products. Untill I see someone driving in one and personally attesting to its granduer I will be in doubt. Until then it is as close to science fiction as light travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 And no "charge time" compared to an electric. Just plug in, wait for the tank to fill, then go. Or you can fill up anywhere they have an air tank. Try again. The one article says the carbon fiber tanks are pressurized to 300 bar. That is roughly 4500 psi. Last time I checked the local gas station wouldn't pump my bike tire that high. The refilling tubes would have to be heavy gage pipe with bolt on connectors to withstand that kind of pressure. It must take hours to refill a tank with a volume sufficient to drive any distances whatsoever. Think about how fast a die grinder will suck down a tank of compressed air. And like said above the majority of the energy used to compress the air would be lost as heat. Just as a point of comparison, ballistic missle subs use 4800 psi air to blast the missles out of the tubes and above the surface of the water. The ship I was on had a 3000 psi compressor to eject torpeados and such. That thing was flat scary. It was a massive piece of machinery. The Navy use to give me shots using a compressed air device that injected the immunization through the open pores of my skin. That thing only used 2200 psi air. Could you imagine what would happen to you if you got in front of a 4500 psi air leak? I am skeptical to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grimlynsan Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Personally I wouldn't feel safe driving around sitting on top of that much pressure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Same problem with the fuel cell cars as well, mucho pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Ok, so i can see the pressure issue. But, the real neat idea, is the idea of an air hybrid. Why not use an alternator on a motor to compress air that could then be used as an alternate motor. It would be interesting to see if that woud be more effective than the current electric hybrids. Although, to show my true stance, every car I ever buy with the thought in mind it will be a 'fun' car, will be internal cumbustion. But, like the rotary, these ideas need the chance to be seen and tried before discarded. If we just shot down all new ideas we wouldn't even have this board. I know most of use (probly all of us) don't like the idea of traveling around town in a "economy efficiant" car, but the truth is, unless we do something the government is going to force us into that position. If you really want to help keep the internal combustion motor alive, figure out how to eliminate start up emissions. That's the majority of emissions a car create. Get rid of those and we'll be centuries ahead in efficiancy than the electric cars. Electricity just takes too many resources to create and get to the people. The idea of using other means to create power has been explored and shut down by the power companies. They're as bad as the oil industry. Forget about waring with them, lets just take away thier hopes of everyone going out and buying an electro-vehicle. Sorry, how tall was that soap box? I think I injured my knees on the jump down. I'm such an a** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The problem with compressed air motor is the same as a hydrogen or electric powered vehicle: where are you going to get the compressed air from? Most likely an electric or gas powered compressor. Back where you started. Still need to generate electricity or refine oil to run the compressor. In this vehicle air is just the storage medium. You still need a power source to create it. The compressed air solves nothing. Maybe less environmentally unfriendly waste byproducts, but still locked to the fossil fuel cycle. But as an engineer I think the "efficiency" you talk about with an air motor could be disproved mathematically. Compressing and expanding air is a highly inefficient means of converting energy. When you think about it that is all a car motor is. A heat pump that uses burning fuel to pressurize the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grimlynsan Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 If you really want to help keep the internal combustion motor alive, figure out how to eliminate start up emissions. That's the majority of emissions a car create. Get rid of those and we'll be centuries ahead in efficiancy than the electric cars. Electricity just takes too many resources to create and get to the people. The idea of using other means to create power has been explored and shut down by the power companies. They're as bad as the oil industry. Forget about waring with them, lets just take away thier hopes of everyone going out and buying an electro-vehicle. Its called ethanol. You make it outta sugar cane which stuggling farmers can grow and sell to people who turn it into clean burning fuel which alone will increase your hp by 40%. That's why racecars use it. Its cheaper, better for the environment, you don't have to rely on OPEC, and it helps the rural economy. Why don't we sell 100% ethenol fuel at the pump? !@#$ed if I know. Maybe someone can tell me. (aside from the obvious answer of politicians being in the pockets of the oil companies and needing to upgrade a few engine components to use it of course...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hmm, i didn't know ethonal burned so much cleaner. You'd think they could at least start designing cars to warm up with ethonal then transfer to gasoline. Had a great conversation with my grandpa (used to work for oil companies as an engineer) about a guy he knew who had set up his deisel motor to run on penut oil, but in order for it to burn the oil had to be preheated to 180 degrees F, so it would start on deisel then transfer over to penut oil, wich was right around .55 a gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Its called ethanol. You make it outta sugar cane which stuggling farmers can grow and sell to people who turn it into clean burning fuel which alone will increase your hp by 40%. That's why racecars use it. Its cheaper, better for the environment, you don't have to rely on OPEC, and it helps the rural economy. Why don't we sell 100% ethenol fuel at the pump? !@#$ed if I know. Maybe someone can tell me. (aside from the obvious answer of politicians being in the pockets of the oil companies and needing to upgrade a few engine components to use it of course...) You're information is a little dated. A recent study came to the conslusion that more fuel is consumed in growing and producing the ethanol than is available from the ethanol itself. It is a waste of time. Plus, someone on here once posted the numbers. The amount of ethanol that could be produced would never be more than a fraction of our oil (USA) consumption. If I remember correctly it was only a fraction of a percent. Plus ethanol doesn't have the energy content of gasoline. You generally pay just as much per gallon for it, then you get noticably worse mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grimlynsan Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 You're information is a little dated. A recent study came to the conslusion that more fuel is consumed in growing and producing the ethanol than is available from the ethanol itself. It is a waste of time. Plus' date=' someone on here once posted the numbers. The amount of ethanol that could be produced would never be more than a fraction of our oil (USA) consumption. If I remember correctly it was only a fraction of a percent. Plus ethanol doesn't have the energy content of gasoline. You generally pay just as much per gallon for it, then you get noticably worse mileage.[/quote'] Presently in Australia there is great debate over Ethanol fuel. This is because since Katrina we have been paying over AU$1.50 per litre. That's alot of money for fuel so the government is introducing E10 fuel. Major TV shows etc did milage tests etc and found the ethanol car to run out last (by a fairly significant amount). As far as not haveing the energy content, why do they use it in racecars then? And how could the same quantity produce better milage? E10 is cheaper here than all other fuels. (except LPG) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grimlynsan Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 a guy he knew who had set up his deisel motor to run on penut oil, but in order for it to burn the oil had to be preheated to 180 degrees F, so it would start on deisel then transfer over to penut oil, wich was right around .55 a gallon. There is a guy here that runs his diesel on the oil from deep fryers. The restaurants pay him to collect it because it is useless to them. He puts it through some kind of refinement process in his basement. Then he poures it into his car. Not just cheap fuel, but he's making money by using it. Only problem is that it smells like fish and chips when he drives up the street. No kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentZ Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 http://www.veggievan.org for your Bio desiel fuel info Ethanol is used in race cars cause it burns cooler (i think)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Ive seen a little bit on the bio-diesel stuff - but again, it comes down to the same problem Ethanol has (I beleive anyway) even if its "cheaper" is there anyway to produce enough of the stuff to make it efficient as a widespread fuel? Also, what kind of energy goes into producing the stuff. I think its a pretty good idea for a couple poeple here and there to do, but imagine 10-15 poeple in one city all vieing for the spent grease of resturaunts, heh. "Wanna go to the park?" "Nah man I cant." "Why not?" "That ******* Ben beat me to Denny's." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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