M1chael Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Does anyone know where I can find a shortlblock or longblock assembly for a vg30et? Would it be feasible to fit my turbo accessories onto a n/a engine? If so, what problems would I face (ecu/mounting/clearance issues). Also, I see some people stating that the higher compression of this engine would increase performance. But isn't the whole point of a force fed engine to have lower compression and more boost? The reason I ask is because someone around me has a 14b turbo out of his dsm for sale (internally wastegated also) and I was thinking about running 15-16 pounds of boost after I hooked up with an intercooler. What would be the highest compression I could run with stock vg30e internals? Thanks in advance, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 personally, I would hold out till you find a turbo block. That is definitely the idea, low compression/high boost. They really arent that hard to come by, i'm sure you can find somethin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onephatz Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 what year do you need. make sure you know which type of vg you want. there is an early vg from 84-early 87 and 87 on. the head gaskets are different from the two types. from what I understand the newer heads can bolt on the older block and be ok but not the opposite. don't quote me on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave88SS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 you can convert an NA to turbo (http://www.redz31.com/pages/turbo.html), but if you need to find an engine anyway just get a VG30ET and be done with it. Or find a VG33 from a pathfinder and convert that to turbo. 4/87 was when they changed to the W series engines with additional water passages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 i'd personally go with a n/a block. 9:1 compression is not too high for boost. i've seen quite a few guys run 9:1 compression with a turbo and are pulling lots of power out of them with no problems. unless you're putting a ton of boost through the engine (probably upwards of 25-30 psi) you won't need that low compression. reasons to use the 9:1 compression engine: faster spooling of turbo more power throughout the entire rev range much better low end power which makes for easier launches better daily driveability potentially better fuel economy as higher compression tends to get better gas mileage n/a blocks were used through the early to mid 90's meaning you can find a lower mileage engine much easier than you would be able to with a turbo engine i turbocharged my maxima and going from 9:1 compression down to 8.3:1 was incredibly noticable. the low end pretty much sucks now. if i ever redo the setup i'll definitely be going to a 9:1 block or i'll just get some custom pistons at 9:1. also, i think the 14b might be a tiny bit small for a 3 liter v6. i'm not positive but i believe that thing would probably run out of steam very fast on one of these engines. also, if i remember correctly running about 15 psi through a 14b is a bit out of its peak efficiency. i'd just go with a decent t3 turbo. it'll bolt right to the exhaust manifold and would work much better on these engines. a .63 a/r exhaust housing is generally the nominal size for a non-ballbearing t3 on a 3 liter v6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onephatz Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 also, i think the 14b might be a tiny bit small for a 3 liter v6. i'm not positive but i believe that thing would probably run out of steam very fast on one of these engines. yea a 14b is the stock turbo on 1g dsm's. they can push about 300hp~same as the stock t3 on a z. the problem is that the turbine is way too small as they came on 2L engines and will overspin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1chael Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Well damn, scratch the 14b. I'll just hold onto 10 pounds for now. I found a guy in my relative area with a supposedly good vg30et and a blown tranny. Actually, his car seems to be in better condition than mine. I'll probably throw my 5 speed in his car and go from there. About reaching 300hp with the stock turbo. I've been reading on z31.com for some time, and as far as I can get from there with a MBC reading 10 pounds of boost, a decent intake and full 3 inch exhaust I should actually be rising only to the 275 margin. What would the next step be to push it reliably over the 300 mark using the stock turbo and no i/c? (mind you I plan on using some n20 a little later with it too ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Vg30et and L28et engines both had low compression ratios. Low CR is good for keeping detonation at bay. You have to consider that Nissan made these engines to be turbocharged with no other systems to control detonation (like a intercooler or water injection) I see no reason why you can't boost a higher compression NA engine but I would make sure it had one of these items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 i would run an aftercooler regardless. heat is bad on the engine. i believe 10 psi is the limit non-aftercooled using a 84-86 t3 style turbo. 15 is supposed to be the limit with an aftercooler. i'm not sure of the limits of the t25's that were equipped on the later models though (87-89). i did however see a dyno of an 84-86 z31 turbo that was all stock except for the boost was turned up to 15 psi (they were probably running extremely lean or even on the virge of blowing the engine doing that) but anyways, it made about 250 rwhp and a bit over 300 ft. lb. of torque. with an aftercooler, intake, exhaust, and better fuel delivery i'm sure 300+ whp would be easy to hit. i've seen guys make 30+ whp going from a 2.5 inch exhaust to 3 inch on turbo setups. the best exhaust system for a turbo is no exhaust... but since that's illegal (and simply annoying), 3 inch definitely helps out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 i've got a 84 block sitting in the garage that you could come and pick up for a few bucks. it might be a looooong drive for you, i'm in canada. i agree with the na idea. just keep the boost down or use methanol/water instead of a cooler. several guys i know are running it with just the front washer pump/pressure switch and a nozzle or two at 15lbs and having no problems. bernard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1chael Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 i would run an aftercooler regardless. heat is bad on the engine. i believe 10 psi is the limit non-aftercooled using a 84-86 t3 style turbo. 15 is supposed to be the limit with an aftercooler. i'm not sure of the limits of the t25's that were equipped on the later models though (87-89). From what I've gathered, it's not advised to run even 12 psi for a long period of time on the vg's t3 as the bearings will wear extremely prematurely. Hence, I've never considered running over 10 without a different turbo. And dont' get me wrong, it's not like I don't want an intercooler. I just can't afford one yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave88SS Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I've been running ~9psi on my t25 for a couple years. That's about as far as I can go without detonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I have a friend with a 91 Eclipse with a 18g and running 20psi with pump gas.I plan on running 20psi with a Large T3/T4 with Methanol/ Water injection.http://www.coolingmist.com/categories.aspx?action=set&res=800 Spearco made a a decent water injection kit that I ran with a CT26 making 275rwh @ 12psi.The newer water/alcohol injection kits run much higher presure 100-150psi vs.40 psi for the Spearco and they atomize the mixture much finer to absorb even more heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 The problem with turboing a N/A engine is that the more boost you put in it will cause more heat. That is why originally turboed engines have lower compression than there N/A versions. The more boost you put in, the more fuel you also have to put in. Fuel is actually used to cool the chambers as well as provide combustion. To much heat and the air/fuel will ignite prematurely and put strain on the moving components. As the N/A version has spark advance reather than spark retard, also the FI engines have have different MAPs for there turbo and non turbo versions. So if you are going to do this hear are some things you need to address. Spark/timing : usually the computer address this. Fuel: Bigger injectors and/or changing the fuel pump to add presure will work. Fuel curve: changing the computer to a aftermarket version or a OEM turbo versionwill work. some other things that you would want to do is use forged pistons if possible. the cast version can only take so much boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 all you have to do is use the turbo ecu on the n/a engine and that is all covered. it might need a bit of adjustment since you'll have more power due to the upped compression but overall the maps will be right for a turbo setup. think of it as just putting some higher compression pistons in a turbo engine, that is essentially all you're doing since the rest of the engine is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1chael Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 I do apologize if this has already been answered, but: How much boost could be safely run through a turbofied vg30e? With an intercooler certainly in the works, but not on the horizon. What would the limits be at first, due to the heat, and after the intercooler installed what would the limits be due to compression issues? I ask becuase I have two days off from work and I'm running to a salvage yard where I know 3 vg30es are resting. If I can get a complete longblock for the right price, then this will be my new project. And can someone explain this water injection business? Sorry, to be truthful I've always been more into domestic v8 powered cars, and some of this stuff throws me for a loop. It's like a reservoir you fill and it shoots it onto the turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 How much power you can safely run is not a easy equation. Intercoolers/Water injection certainly help but I think what is even more important is tuning. Running too lean or too much advance is sure to cause big problems. Water injection (or alchohol injection) is spraying a mist into the air intake to cool the air charge down. A common thing is to use simple windshield washer fluid as it contains alchohol, is cheap and readily available. Alchohol will also increase the octane rating of your fuel. I got a extra washer fluid reservoir, a headlight washer pump from a zx, electric pressure switch, relay, and a couple of spay nozzles mounted in the J pipe. The system works quite well. I set up the switch to turn the pump on at 5+ psi, I have no bog issues and can hit 15psi with no intercooler. It does not even use up that much washer fluid. Less than a gallon per tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 How much boost could be safely run through a turbofied vg30e? The limit is just in the tuning. I believe there's a guy on Z31.com that was using a VG30E pathfinder block and was making over 500 hp on it. I believe there are a few other guys making 400+ on 9:1 with no trouble. Its just all in the tuning. Fuel is how you can have a 15:1 compression engine running 50 pounds of boost and surviving a race with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave88SS Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 The limit is just in the tuning. I believe there's a guy on Z31.com that was using a VG30E pathfinder block and was making over 500 hp on it. I believe there are a few other guys making 400+ on 9:1 with no trouble. Its just all in the tuning. jason84na2t found ~450hp to be about the limit of the stock (NA?) pistons. The block itself can go much farther. I believe the pathy VG blocks have additional reinforcement as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 BRC pistons from there then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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