Vintage Air Install

[Danno74Z]

73LT1Z

 

I too have all the Corvette parts to swap over to the driver's side mount (just have not had the time) I did take a measurement of the balancer and it is 2.25" thick whereas the Camaro balancer is 1-5/16" thick. It does have the same # of ribs in the belt.

 

I don't think anyone here has done the Corvette accessory swap!

 

 

Danno74Z

[Bartman]

Not yet- if so' date=' yet another battle in the war .

[/quote']I really don't think your setup is going to fit. Take a look at the new thread I created the other day with my AC bracket installed http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=106897. I think my bracket doesn't stick out as far as yours, and mine required some massaging to make it work. Finding out now that it doesn't fit could save you a lot of money, time and anquish.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Shades of squeezing the LT1 back into the Trans Am! At least this setup goes in from the top. I didn't know it was that tight, so it looks like the Vette compressor is really the way to go. I'm waiting to hear from a vendor on Ebay about the reman unit w/ 6 groove clutch that appears to fit the Vette bracket.

 

Now, about fitting those 16" wheels...

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Picked up a used Vette compressor for $195 shipped. I've attached a pic of it mounted. I'm sure clearance will be an issue, but what isn't on a job like this ?

[Guest 73LT1Z]

You were right... there wasn't enough room.

 

I sat the motor in place today & even with the Vette bracket, the compressor is too far away from the motor.

 

Option 1 is putting the F-body alternator bracket back in place & shimming it to match the Vette balancer & then adding a Sanden on top (alternator location) of the Vette bracket. I've played around with this & 2 of the 4 legs fit & the remaining brackets shouldn't be too hard to make. The compressor sits in nice & tight & should clear the hood. Here are the trial fit pics w/ my old Sanden compressor:

 

I fabbed a couple of simple brackets to attach to the other two mounting ears of the Sanden. The front one goes to the Vette bracket, and the back one attaches to a stud on the front of the intake.

 

I like this layout, and there is plenty of room on the sides. It looks like the hood should close OK as well, my main concern. I still need to add another tensioner & an idler on the F-body bracket.

 

Option 2 is to use an R4 compressor & bracket similar to what GM sells for their serpentine conversions.

Here are some pics from a classic truck install:

 

I'm still doing some research.

[Danno74Z]

73LT1Z,

 

You get an A+ for effort, now others don't have to go down this road - thanks for trying!

 

I thought about what you said in option 1 and I too thought about combining both systems to make a "Hybrid AC" system. I have looked at other after market systems that mount both AC and ALT up a lot higher and they fit under the hood. Trying to visualize the AC compressor where the alt is now and I don't think it will be any higher the stock LT1 alt. Do you have to cut off the Corvette AC compressor bracket mount or is that a bolt on?

 

Danno74Z

[Danno74Z]

This March system will fit under the Z hood - expensive though.

 

 

From this picture you can see the original placement of the LT1 alt. using the bower setup which also comes very close to the strut tower as another member is adapting to fit in the Z. But if you put the Corvette bracket on and use its alt location for the compressor it MIGHT JUST WORK! Routing the belt might be a issue and I think going under the water pump like bower's does is the right way (and safer) to do it.

 

[Bartman]

This March system will fit under the Z hood - expensive though.

 

 

From this picture you can see the original placement of the LT1 alt. using the bower setup which also comes very close to the strut tower as another member is adapting to fit in the Z. But if you put the Corvette bracket on and use its alt location for the compressor it MIGHT JUST WORK! Routing the belt might be a issue and I think going under the water pump like bower's does is the right way (and safer) to do it.

 

I called and talked with March before I bought my bracket from Bowers...and based on their experience and the measurements they provided me; it will not fit under the hood on a Z. The compressor is longer than the alternator, and therefore it needs to sit higher than the alternator to prevent it from interfering with the valve cover.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I didn't cut the Vette bracket in any way.

 

I picked up the idler & tensioner assemblies for the F-body tonight, and I see how the other setup worked with the PS pump keeping the belt over the water pump (I don't have a PS pump, but could probably throw a used one in there & let it spin). It looks like they are using an "AC delete" pulley setup as well. I will need to do some more fabbing to get the pulleys in the right place, but this should be doable.

[Lengeo]

Lots of good information in this discussion.

 

Do you need any stock A/C parts to install the Vintage air system in a non-A/C car or is everything available as after market?

 

Thanks for being pioneers for the rest of us.

 

Lenn

[Bartman]

Lots of good information in this discussion.

 

Do you need any stock A/C parts to install the Vintage air system in a non-A/C car or is everything available as after market?

 

Thanks for being pioneers for the rest of us.

 

Lenn

Everything is available as aftermarket. Go to http://www.vintageair.com and check it out. You can request a catalog or view the pdf version online. The best part is its all the latest technology, and just abut everything is better than stock ever was.

 

It's like HybridZing your AC, Heat, Defrost, and ventilation.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I've found a couple of suppliers for AC stuff:

 

Rear-exit Sanden for a good price, lots of hoses & fittings:

Rjays

 

Dual fan condenser, brackets, etc.:

Old Air Products

 

Always shop around before you buy!

 

EDIT- Rjays seem like nice people, but take forever to respond to email questions. Probably best to call.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I think I have figured out a solution to the belt issue-

 

I put the old PS pump in place on both brackets, and it is a perfect fit to clear the water pump. I'm going to buy the AC delete bracket & pulley to complete the setup. The PS pulley is 5.75" in diameter. The pumps can't be run dry, so I need to fabricate a couple of idlers using LT1 PS pump pulleys (I have one*, just need one more).

 

Once the pulley is popped off the pump, you have a .750 opening in it, which will accept a sealed bearing, just like an idler pulley. I'm working on a scale sketch, but here are the parts needed:

 

EDIT updated to include flange bearings

2 x PS pump pulleys (junkyard or web search- I don't think there is a part # for just the pulley)

2x Model #UCFL204-12 flanged bearing. You will need to file the moutning holes and grind the end of one to fit the accesory brackets. The mounting centers are the same for both the F-body & Vette.

4 x .5"x.75" aluminum bar, 4" long. Drill to match PS pump mounting holes on accessory brackets, 3.187" on center.

4 x 8mm x 1.25 bolts 50mm long, washers (attach flanges to bracket)

2 x 3" long .75 diameter shafts. I used some steel pipe I found at Home Depot for the below stuff.

 

Support the pulley with a large socket & press the shaft into it until it is flushe with the front edge of the center opening. Then press the bearing onto the shaft & mount it to the accessory bracket.

 

This setup uses the F-body tensioner in the stock location. The belt comes off the crank over the Vette idler pulley, around the Sanden compressor, around the driver side PS pulley idler, under the water pump, around the passenger side PS pulley idler, over the alternator, around the AC delete pulley, then around the tensioner and back to the crank pulley. Hope they make a belt long enough! The nice thing is that all of this stuff (except the Sanden & idler parts) is GM for ease of replacement if needed.

 

I ordered most of this stuff today, so it will be a while before I have this completed with pics.

 

EDIT

Pics are deleted, this concept will not work as planned.

 

*Did I mention I never throw anything (automotive) away? Now is one of those times it is paying off.

[Danno74Z]

73LT1Z

 

I sent you a picture of a LT4 engine serpentine belt routing. I understand what you are doing with both pulleys but how are you routing the belt on the driver's side without the compressor over there any more? To me it looks like you have to add a small pulley where the AC was to clear things with the belt.

 

Danno74Z

[Guest 73LT1Z]

The Vette bracket has a boss for an idler pulley, and the Sanden mounts further out than the Vette alternator (and has a larger pulley), so the belt will clear.

 

You can kind of see what I mean with this pic where I used some 1" header wrap to simulate the belt:

[Bartman]

The Vette bracket has a boss for an idler pulley' date=' and the Sanden mounts further out than the Vette alternator (and has a larger pulley), so the belt will clear.

 

You can kind of see what I mean with this pic where I used some 1" header wrap to simulate the belt:

[img']http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/827000-827999/827898_85_full.jpg[/img]

It's looking pretty close to the Bower's setup now, except your using a Sanden compressor.

Let me know how that adapter works out to use the Sanden Compressor...maybe something similar would work on my Bower's bracket.

 

From your picture, it looks like you will need to turn your compressor to keep the fittings from interfering with the hood (if it doesn't interfere, IMHO it would still look better to exit from the bottom). If you can't turn it, maybe you could use a rear exit design.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

In post #52 I mentioned the rear-exit Sanden. I figured this would be the way to go since the factory AC evap fittings are on the driver side.

[Danno74Z]

To me, I think it will work. Great job! After you have it all mocked up (and you can get a long belt) you can get both brackets powder coated

 

Danno74Z

[Guest 73LT1Z]

You would think that it would be a simple thing to obtain a bearing for a 1/2" shaft in a 3/4" opening.

 

WRONG!!!

 

The only ones I could find are for skateboards, and while they fit the opening, I'm less than optimistic about longevity.

 

Great idea #2

 

I figured since the LT1 PS pump bolts up & is the right size for belt alignment, it should be a simple thing to take it apart & use the housing to support the 3/4" shaft & stock pulley. After doing so, I saw it would be an easy thing (OK, reatively easy) to bore out the bushing in the pump housing to like 1".

 

You would think that it would be a simple thing to obtain a bearing for a 3/4" shaft in a 1" opening.

 

WRONG!!!

:mad:

 

I'll keep searching, but it is for some reason impossible to find what I need here.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I picked up some flanged bearing housings that accept a .75" shaft on Ebay for $9 each, and ordered a couple of 4.5" L x .75" dia shafts. The idea now is to mount the flanges where the PS pumps went, and attach the pulleys via the shafts. I had to file the mounting holes of the flanges to fit, but not too bad of a job.

 

I also used the PS pump body as a template & drilled some .5" x .75" aluminum bar stock as a spacer to mount the flanges. The end of one had to be ground down on the F-body bracket.

 

I'm still waiting on some parts & will update w/ pics in a couple of days.

 

BTW, AC suppliers area as bad as residential contractors on getting back to you when you try & buy stuff out of the norm, i.e. a rear exit serpentine compressor & a fitting to match the factory AC one at the firewall.

 

EDIT

I got one of these put together and I'm not satisfied with the alignment. The other shaft went in crooked & couldn't be straightened.

 

Having dissected a PS pump to do this project, I think it would be easier & cheaper to buy a couple of used PS pumps and remove the vanes, fill them with fluid, and plug the holes.

 

I'll update as I make more progress.

 

EDIT #2

Ordered two used PS pumps for a whopping $50. The saga continues...

 

EDIT #3

PS pumps arrived 1/26. I pulled the back covers & removed the vanes from the rotating part. The shafts are held in place by this part, so the vanes are all that can be removed. I plan on buying a plug for the threaded part & a rubber cap for the tube and refilling them with PS fluid to lube the shaft. Should have some installed pics soon.

 

Still waiting on AC parts, so no compressor to put in place for belt alignment & length.

 

EDIT #4

Got the PS pumps mounted with the motor in place, everything was going good... a little too good of course, as the LT1 AC delete pulley won't clear the frame !!!

 

I fixed it by triming the third (outside) mounting hole & flipping the bracket horizontally. Using my old Sanden, I came up with a belt length of 105.5" ! I'm going to go 1/2" shorter to start since the measurement was with the tensioner fully closed.

 

I'll have some pics of this Rube Goldberg belt drive tomorrow .

 

Here are the pics:

 

 

Not sure if I mentioned it above, but the passenger accessory bracket was spaced 1" out from the block using steel spacers.

 

I even found a few applications that use a 104.5" belt, so once I get the serpentine Sanden in place I can re-measure & see what the next issue will be.