Vintage Air Install

[Bartman]

I've talked with Zoops, March Performance, Vintage Air, and a couple of other people. I think the only real options are the Bowers bracket or making your own like love-my-V8-280Z did. All the other kits are very expensive and are either too wide or too tall. The stock alternator is mounted as close as it can possibly fit on the passengers side, and in order to move it to the driver's side it needs to be pushed up or out (the stock location fits in front of the head, which it cannot do on the drivers side because the driver's side head is farther forward than the passenger's side head). So...that leaves dealing with running the lines around the back of the engine bay before going through the firewall. I just got an email from 240playtoy, and he's thinking maybe the lines could be routed along the frame rail to the front and then across and back to the firewall. That sounds like a pretty good solution, thanks Andrew.

 

One of the problems for me was that the Bowers bracket is made for the stock LT1 compressor and not the Sanden 508. Vintage Air ensured me the stock GM unit will work, and they even sell adapters that go on the back of the compressor that will allow you to install the Vintage lines. I don't have the stock compressor, but that issue was solved when I talked to Joe (Bowers) and he offered me a good used one for $50.

 

So anyway, the compressor and bracket kit should ship out tomorrow and soon the real work will start.

[Danno74Z]

Bartman,

 

I have been following along with your install and I wanted to let you know that in the summer 2005 edition of Sport Z mag on page 52 is an article on swapping out A/C units in older Zs. This builder was updating the A/C in an 80 280ZX and is using the Vintage Air GENII Compac unit. If you need a copy of the article let me know. Also, you can contact (email) the builder (Ron) at rondaugherty@earthlink.net for questions.

 

Danno74Z

[Bartman]

Bartman' date='

 

I have been following along with your install and I wanted to let you know that in the summer 2005 edition of Sport Z mag on page 52 is an article on swapping out A/C units in older Zs. This builder was updating the A/C in an 80 280ZX and is using the Vintage Air GENII Compac unit. If you need a copy of the article let me know. Also, you can contact (email) the builder (Ron) at rondaugherty@earthlink.net for questions.

 

Danno74Z

Thanks Danno, I should have that issue at home and I'll be sure and check it out.

[The Rototiller]

Bartman' date='

 

I have been following along with your install and I wanted to let you know that in the summer 2005 edition of Sport Z mag on page 52 is an article on swapping out A/C units in older Zs. This builder was updating the A/C in an 80 280ZX and is using the Vintage Air GENII Compac unit. If you need a copy of the article let me know. Also, you can contact (email) the builder (Ron) at rondaugherty@earthlink.net for questions.

 

Danno74Z

 

i would like to see a copy of that article......can you email it to performancescooter@comcast.net

[fastzcars]

Bartman I just found the reciepts. The parts No. for the condensor is 03245-VUC. The 4-way bulkhead I used was 34218-VUQ. The streamline control panel is 48104-RHQ. The evporator kit comes with the vents, but you could ask them to delete them to save some money, since you are using the stock vents.

[Bartman]

Bartman I just found the reciepts. The parts No. for the condensor is 03245-VUC. The 4-way bulkhead I used was 34218-VUQ. The streamline control panel is 48104-RHQ. The evporator kit comes with the vents, but you could ask them to delete them to save some money, since you are using the stock vents.

Thanks for the part numbers fastzcars.

 

I have some of the other parts I need, and I will start installing this weekend. I'm redoing my intake and putting the stock tensioner back on in conjunction with installing Bowers low hood compressor relocation kit.

 

I will have new pictures and updates soon.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I met with the owner of a local hot rod shop late last week. He seemed interested in helping me out' date=' but he's supposed to call me this week. If I don't here from him soon, I'll just assume he's not really interested. He suggested using steel braided lines, which I may wind up doing.

 

I'm still planning on using the Gen II mini, the stock vents, the proline bulkhead plate, and probably the same upgraded oval control panel that fastzcars used.

 

This might be a little expensive, but this March LT-1 serpentine kit may just be the way to go for me.

http://www.marchperf.com/pg18.html

 

Summit Racing carries their parts, so I'm sure I can get one for at least a little bit less than the price listed at March (Summit's web site has the #20921 unit for $831.69 which lists at March for $979.42). I'm going to measure tonight and see if it will work for my install. The guy at the hot rod shop already suggested changing the alternator to the driver's side and the A/C Compressor on the passenger's side. This should make it easier to route the lines into the evaporator.

 

Any comments or suggestions?

 

As part of my wiring project for the LT1/'75 280, I am looking at AC compressor mounting (when I bought this Z, one of the things I had to have was a factory air car). I was depressed by either the high cost/poor engineering (sometimes both) of the aftermarket setups. Here is what I found:

 

AIR CONDITIONING

This is a complex area. The LT1 compressor must be relocated due to interference. I have researched the several alternatives here, such as using a Corvette bracket (see newer info below), but even remanufactured Corvette compressors are over $500 at parts stores (the F-body compressor is different). The Sanden series are popular with the aftermarket, and the fittings for these are plentiful. Several vendors make brackets to adapt this compressor to the LT1, however, they usually end up about 6†or more above the valve covers across from the alternator. Asisde from looking riduculous, there is also a hazard with an open fan belt between the accessories if you needed to work on the motor while it was running. You would also need to cut a hole in your hood to use this setup.

 

As I write this, the best complete setup I’ve seen is at Street & Performance, http://www.hotrodlane.cc/ which also eliminates the power steering. It is about $600 (plus the compressor!!!), so you will pay a lot one way or the other. I favor the Sanden compressor since it is so easy to adapt (I have them on other cars and they are a good unit). One drawback is the need to adapt a different alternator with this setup.

 

The parts needed to switch over to a Corvette LT1 accessory bracket were the harmonic balancer, plug wires, tensioner assembly, valve covers, and idler pulley- note I eliminated the power steering with my setup. What I ended up doing was using a used Corvette mounting bracket (these are less than $85 new, but I can’t find a part #), a harmonic balancer from Rock Auto (http://www.rockauto.com), and a tensioner assembly from Advanced Auto Parts. To mount the Sanden compressor, I found an adapter plate that bolts to a flat surface for $40 at Old Air Products part # 40-608 at http://www.oldairproducts.com. The Corvette bracket has 4 x 8mm threaded holes in it to facilitate a plate mount. I also picked up the Trinary switch at Old Air for $27. You can use the F-body alternator with this bracket, you just need to “modify†the valve cover to look like the front of the other one, or use the LT4 style (also needed for 1.6 roller rockers). The coil goes to the passenger side head in the same position as the F-body, so you need a longer coil wire or Vette plug wire set. You will need some miscellaneous 8mm, 10mm, & 3/8-16 bolts & nuts to put all this together.

Part Source Cost

Bracket GM Dealer 85

Nuts, bolts, washers Hardware store 10

Balancer Rock Auto 65

Compressor adapter plate Old Air Products 40

Plug wires* Summit 60

Tensioner Advance Auto Parts 30

Idler pulley Rock Auto 15

Valve covers, LT4* GM Dealer 185

Total 490

*This stuff is not included with the other conversion setups and I was going to replace it anyway. With out the cost of these items, the physical conversion price drops to $245.

 

I had a Corvette bracket from another project (it pays to never throw stuff away ), and mounted it to the LT1 motor today. I modified the driver side valve cover with a hammer & the alternator fits OK. I'm going to order the rest of this stuff and see how it goes. The alternator sits further out from the motor, hence the need for the Vette balancer. I didn't have an F-body tensioner to try with this, so I'm going to play it safe & figure they don't interchange.

 

I'll update here once I get this stuff installed on the motor. I need to size the Datsun evap fittings on the firewall so I can buy adapters as needed to plumb the AC.

[qwik240z]

My car uses a sanden compressor that I got from Johns Cars with the other LS1 components. He fabricated a nice bracket for it and it fits nice and tight on the drivers side. It car retain the P/S pump if you want it.

 

The entire A/C compressor and bracket were like $400. The bracket is not very complicated looking. I bet you could make one for the LT1 no problem.

 

 

You can see how low it sits in there too.

 

 

[Danno74Z]

73LT1Z,

 

I think I understand what you are doing but you may run into a problem with the Vette balancer. I maybe wrong, but I don't think the Vette balancer will fit on the Camaro hub number one, two the Vette hub is longer then the Camaro hub and last I believe the Camaro uses a 8 rib serpentine belt and the Vette uses an 11 rib one. You may have problems with the other pulleys in the system.

 

Danno74Z

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Thanks for the update- I ordered a balancer, idler, & tensioner for a '95 Vette, the stuff should be here this week & I'll update here as I get more information.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I visted my favorite online replacement parts vendor Rock Auto and looked at serpentine belts for the 1995 F-body (Camaro/Firebird), 1995 Corvette LT1 & ZR1. Here are the listings:

 

Camaro: 13/16 W x 64.75" long

Corvette LT1: 13/16 W x 67.5" long

Corvette ZR1: 13/16 W x 80.75" long

 

Looks like everything used a 13/16" wide belt, so this should work with the correct length belt (can't use Vette OEM since I'm dropping the power steering).

 

I've also given some thought to the York/Sanden adapter bracket. It seems like it may be possible to turn it 180 degrees and with some spacers mount the comp in the space where the GM one was located.

 

Here is a pic of the York/Sanden bracket from Old Air Products:

http://www.oldairproducts.com/shop/crimages.php?imagefile=images/40-608.jpg

[Bartman]

Here is a pic of the York/Sanden bracket from Old Air Products:

http://www.oldairproducts.com/shop/crimages.php?imagefile=images/40-608.jpg

That York/Sanden bracket is a good find. I was looking for something like that a few weeks ago. I'm wondering if I can use this in conjunction with the Bowers bracket I already purchased.

 

I already got a used stock LT1 compressor for $50, but maybe I should get this bracket and switch over to a Sanden unit. Is the Sanden unit a lot better than the stock LT1 unit?

[Bartman]

I just called Old Air Products, and this bracket will not fit on the stock LT1 compressor. The LT1 compressor is not a York, and they don't have one that will work on LT1 compressor's.

[fastzcars]

Bartman, I think you might be able to find more aftermarket bracket's for the sanden unit than you can find for all the OEM compressor's. You can find unpolished saden unit's for alittle over $100. That's just my opinion. Hey as soon as you get all hooked up I can go over and help you evact. and charge you system. I have the charging manifold.

[Bartman]

Bartman, I think you might be able to find more aftermarket bracket's for the sanden unit than you can find for all the OEM compressor's. You can find unpolished saden unit's for alittle over $100. That's just my opinion. Hey as soon as you get all hooked up I can go over and help you evact. and charge you system. I have the charging manifold.

Thanks fastzcars, I'd like to take you up on that offer.

 

In my searching for brackets, I did find many brackets for the Sanden, but not one that would work on an LT1 in a 240Z (too high or too wide). Is there one that will just bolt up to a bracket made for the stock LT1 compressor and allow it to bolt up to a Sanden unit?

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Is there one that will just bolt up to a bracket made for the stock LT1 compressor and allow it to bolt up to a Sanden unit?

 

I'd say no after several days of research. I ordered the Old Air bracket, and have the 'Vette bracket on my motor (on the motor stand until it is done). I'll play w/ it & let you know.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Which do you want first?

 

I got the Old Air adapter bracket today and it is not quite the same size as the mounting area on the Vette bracket (too small ). There is also no way to line up the bolt holes as is.

 

The good news? I also got the Vette balancer & it bolts right up to the F-Body hub & appears to have the correct offset for the serpentine belt.

 

As for the bracket, it looks like it can be cut & welded to fit with a little work. I pulled an unused Sanden 508 off one of my Chevys, and even though it is a dual v-belt pulley, it looks like the Old Air bracket can be made to work with this unit. Unfortunately, my Mig gun gave up the ghost while I was working on the Supra, so I have to wait for a replacement to try this.

 

You could also build a bracket from a 6"x6"x1/4" plate and weld a set of ears to it to attach the Sanden. I'm doing a scale drawing after measuring everything, and will post it here later.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I'm attaching a shot of the compressor on the bracket with one bolt holding it in place so you can see how it lines up, and a diagram showing the bolt centers on the Vette bracket. The holes are 5/16".

EDIT- didn't work- pics deleted

 

I sliced up the Old Air bracket into 4 pieces & have come to the conclusion that it would be easier to get a 6x6 piece of .250" aluminum & drill holes in it to mount the Old Air plate onto, and then mount the aluminum plate on the Vette bracket.

 

Someone that can fabricate aluminum could make a one piece bracket w/o too much trouble, it is a plate with 4 ears. If the Old Air bracket was like 1/2" larger on all sides, it would be about a perfect fit.

 

I'm going to use a piece of 4" wide .250" steel I had laying around to hold the pieces of the Old Air bracket together from underneath.

[Danno74Z]

73LT1Z,

 

Looking at your pictures with the vette bracket installed on your engine, it appears that the compressor will smack into the strut tower. Just wondering if you have taken measurements on this?

 

Danno74Z

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Not yet- if so, yet another battle in the war .

 

I'm going to invest in a "dummy" foam block when I do an LT1/T56 in the Supra, I guess it would have been a good idea here as well, although since the Z swap has been done a long time, I was hoping there would be fewer issues.

 

EDIT

I found a reman LT1 Vette compressor on Ebay for $213 w/o a clutch. I have 3 F-body compressors w/ clutches here. Unfortunately, according to the Rock Auto parts listings, the clutches do not interchange between the Vette & F-body .

 

It looks like the LT1 Vette uses a 10PA20C Denso compressor, which is also used by numerous other vehicles. A search on Ebay showed several (with clutches) for about $175-250 that appear to have the same bolt up patterns, albeit w/ 5, 6, or 8 grove clutches. The Rock Auto picture of the Vette clutch looks like 6 grooves. I'll count my pulley grooves later & update again.