Gareth Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Guys, sorry for opening the grave, but I figured it would be better to bring back an old topic than start a new one and get flamed. I'm planning to convert my 240Z to use a complete S14 drivetrain. I already bought a stock S14 R200 diff and S14 5 lug hubs. If everything goes according to plan, I'll also use T3-modifed axles and the R200 conversion kit, more info here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=122079 I'd like to use the S14 transmission too. Fortunately, European S14s have blacktop SR20DETs and FS5W71C transmissions, so it shouldn't be much of a problem to source one. I took out the original L24 with the FS5W71A transmission. Does the tutorial apply to ANY L-series transmission, including the early A-type? Does the B-type have the same bellhousing as the A-type? Thanks in advance. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I have a fs5w71c and the factory service manual does not correctly identify my synchronizer hubs so I have no idea how they go. Any help/pictures of your fs5w71c tranny internals would be appreciated. They both have the right angle cutout on one face, but then on the other face one is chamfered and the other is flat. Now it the manual they show the 3rd and 4th hub as having the cutout and chamfer on the front side and the back is also chamfered. Then the 1st and 2nd hub has a right angle cutout on the front with a chamfer on the rear face. Also, just to make sure they do refer to the "front" of the tranny as the motor side of the tranny, correct? look at the micro fische for the 85 or earlier 71c box from a 300zx, the syncro rings were different and sound like what your talking about http://carfiche.com/manuals022/cars/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 cant wait to see some pics! great thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Would someone care to measure the gear widths of the KA tranny so we can see whats what? Dave I know this is an old thread, but nobody answered this question, and I'm now wishing someone could have. I picked up an '89 KA transmission, and the gear widths appear to be approximately the same as the 71B box. I wasn't able to measure very accurately, because I don't want to disassemble the entire trany. But most of my measurement were in the 18mm range. If I'd known, I would have picked up an SR box instead. I don't know if it's significant, but there is a "71B" cast into the bellhousing. Yet, the gear ratios match those for a 71C Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 nigel, I have a 91 KA tranny, and did the "C to B Bellhousing Swap"---Remove C Bellhousing, and replace with the B housing after altering the opening of the shift rod to 15mm, and opening of the countershaft bearing to the larger "C" style countershaft bearing style. Move mounting X-Member back a bit, and shorten the driveshaft 50mm... Mine appeared to have some sort of 'hardened spacer' to make the gearset wider than the B box I replaced. I do have one of each (B and C) available on the back porch still disassembled awaiting bellhousing mods, so I can measure with my caliper in the morning and post back to this thread. They have been doing this swap in Japan for years actually. Some speed shops sell the bellhousings (around $600 equivalent) already modified, though the japanese technique usually revolves around a complete disassembly of the gearset to swap the shiftrod out with a special one that has a turned-down end for the earlier bellhousing section. IMO altering the bellhousing holes is easier, as the swap becomes very quick that way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 That would be great Tony! Despite the popularity of the swap, there is still a considerable amount of vauge, incomplete and unverified information, and it's scattered all over the place, even on this site (why is this thread not in the drivelilne section, for example?). Everybody knows that you can bolt up a B series bell housing if you drill out the one/two shift rod hole, mill the inside of the case, and either swap bearings, or open up the hole for the larger 71C bearing. But I've yet to see difinitive solutions regarding the speedometer gear, rear transmission mount (I've read rumours of a GM mount allowing everything to bolt right up, but I have one and can't see how that could be the case) and driveshaft (will an early 240Z shaft work, for example?). And how many people know that the reverse sensor is in a different location on the 4 speed bellhousing? Also, I have read many times that the FS5W71C are all identical with the exception of the gear ratios. However, this appears not to be the case. I've read of different output shaft diameters, and even the possibility that there may be a dual syncro version on some SR tranys. Now it appears that the gear widths may be different as well. It certainly looks that way with the S13 trany compared to dimentions I've found on this site for the SR trany (It will be interesting to see what measurements you come back with Tony). It would be nice to find out how the S14 version compares. This is particularly frustrating because I've just picked up this low mileage (60,000 miles) S13 box, but if it's no stronger than the 280ZX B series I'm wondering if I should bother putting it in. Anyway, I'm taking picutres of as much as I can, and I'm going to compile as much verified information as I can get (if anyone else can help, let me know) and start a new thread. Hopefully it can be made into a sticky for the drivetrain section. Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Click the pictures to enlarge. Early 240sx I believe 89 down cars use mechanical speedos and mine hooked up with no mods. The cross member definatly needs to be modified as it sits further back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 the b box speedo cog carrier can be used with the c box. Take the carrier and cut a slot 180deg. from the original holding slot. and then put it in just using the new slot you just made. it works fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Click the pictures to enlarge. Early 240sx I believe 89 down cars use mechanical speedos and mine hooked up with no mods. Thanks for the info guys! Hmmm... well, I have what I was told is an '89 trany, and it has an electronic speedo in it. And Monzter, you say your mechanical speedo bolted right in, yet jeffer949 claims he had to modify his. What's your 5 speed out of jeffer? Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 LOL ive had a few. one was out of a 300zx. one was out of a 92 i believe and now this one is out of an 89maybe. idk i didnt pay that much attention to it. here is my crossmember. It was my first welding project and it is really ugly but its worked so far. And when i say my first welding project i mean i went and bought a welder and hadnt welded before and tried to make this. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 the b box speedo cog carrier can be used with the c box. Take the carrier and cut a slot 180deg. from the original holding slot. and then put it in just using the new slot you just made. it works fine OR, use an 'earlier' B-Box speedo cog carrier! The early and late B-Boxes have the same disparity, there are two carriers, each offset differently...but the 'difference' is simply that they rotated it 180 and made the hold down clamp there instead. Any B-Box cog holder can be made 'universal' for the B-Boxes (and will then fit the C-Box as well) by simply cutting the slot described above. Monzster is correct, there is a breakpoint where the KA tranny went from Speedo Cog, to an electronic speed pulser/sensor (this is what my 91 Tranny had in it). Curiously, these retrofit to later trannies and can be used on the electronic speedometers through their calibration function. Eliminate that speedo cable! Go electronic! The cogs fit into the speed sensor hole no problem...and curiously the speed pulser used the same drive as for the speedo cable. Meaning if you cut the slot in the speed sensor/pulser it will also become universal, fitting in any A/B/C box for an E-Speedo Conversion! I will go get the calipers now. It's been a hectic couple of day recently...corporate downsizing:-( I'll be right back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I do have one of each (B and C) available on the back porch still disassembled awaiting bellhousing mods, so I can measure with my caliper in the morning and post back to this thread. Hey Tony! Did you ever get a chance to take those measurements? Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun 1/2 dozen SD Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 they show how to mate s30 bellhousing to a ka tranny in this web site chech it out got pics too http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/240sxtransmissioninstall/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 D'OH, I just got the PM from Nigel. I'm sorry guys, I thought I had already posted my 'quick measurements'!!! This is a cut n paste of the PM I just sent him back: Hey Tony! Did you ever take those measurements? Nigel I didn't post those already? Let me see, the notepad is right here... On the 'B' the countershaft has four gears, the largest being forward on the transmission, towards the bellhousing. The gear widths on the countershaft are 18.0mm on each of the four gears. The gear they mesh with on the main cluster gear assembly are all 18.3mm wide. On the 'C' countershaft, the first gear forward (the largest one) is a total of 20.0mm (19.9mm?)wide, including the 'hardened spacer' I spoke of. The spacer itself is 1.7mm thick...Meaning the gear itself is 18.3mm thick. 0.3mm wider than the 'B' box! The gear it mates with on the cluster gear is 20.3 mm wide which is no doubt wider and stronger. The next gears in succession appear to all be 18.3mm wide with mating gears similarly sized. So the big increase in strength appears in the first gear assembly, and then at least 0.3mm wider gear using all the available cluster gear for power transmission in the 'C' as opposed to the 'B'. The gear cluster seems much tighter stacked due to the wider gears compared "B" to "C". I thought I posted this some time ago. This notebook has been sitting by my chair for some time...all sorts of crap written next to and around it. If you want to post this to the original thread, feel free to... Some of the measurements were taken pretty quickly with a vernier caliper, but the changes in width were obviously more than simply a measurement error---when they sit side by side, you can see the "C" box has a tighter cluster stack, and simply looks 'beefier'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hey Tony! Thanks for taking those measurements! So, this is interesting... Here's some measurements that were posted in another thread (http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105983): 71B gearbox (240Z/280ZX I think) Bearing Widths (Gear/Counter mm/Main mm): Input/18/18.5 3/18/18 2/18/16 1/22/18 71C gearbox (S14 SR20) Bearing Widths (Gear/Counter mm/Main mm): Input/20/24.5 3/21/21 2/20.5/20.5 1/23/20.5 Here are the widths for the 71C box measured by Tony: 71C gearbox (S13) Bearing Widths (Gear/Counter mm/Main mm): Input/18.3/20.3 3/18.3/18.3 2/18.3/18.3 1/18.3/18.3 (Tony: I assume you weren't able to get a good measurement on the counter shaft 1st gear since that would make it narrower than a B box) Even taking into account some measurement error, it looks like the S14/SR20 gears are wider. So much for the myth that all of the 71C boxes are the same (with the exception of the ratios). Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun 1/2 dozen SD Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 can you do the same conversion to a ka24 truck tranny out of a hard body? the truck tranny is shorter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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