260DET Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 If you want to get serious go a big BB turbo like a GT35R and use a top of the range aftermarket programmable ECU so the engine can be dyno tuned for optimum performance, fuel economy and durability. That is the starting point, otherwise ................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 remember guys... we're not all out to make these rediculously huge power numbers. zeiss150 sounds a lot like me.... I knew from the get go... that my budget was very limited, and the amount of time and work I wanted to invest was also. I always just wanted to get as much as I could, reliably, out of the stock turbo and mostly stock setup. I'm pretty satisfied with where I ended up... a car capable of running high 12's is pretty damn sweet for just a motor swap, upped boost, an I/C and RRFPR and a small amount of tuning time on the dyno. You can do a lot with the stock turbo... hell Jersey is running very low 12's at 18psi, and these guys getting close to 300whp with megasquirt. At only 14psi, that's not really stressing the turbo, not cutting it's service life in half or anything like that I think Big turbos, custom manifolds and all that support stuff take a lot of money and work... not for everyone. 250-300whp in super light S30 chassis is gonna be enough for a lot of people, as well. Not everyone wants to run 10's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Boy, you have gotten a LOT of great advice in this post, maybe even too much In summary, 9.2:1 cr/cam (higher RPMs)/91-octane/stock turbo/2.5" exhaust is not a good combo. Instead of spending money on a rebuilt T3, get an upgraded hybrid for probably not much more. Instead of 2.5" exhaust, spend a little more for 3". Skip the cam and spend the money on an alky-injection system. Read, read, read and understand the basic principles of turbocharging so you can properly tune, tune, tune the engine management system. That one is free. I know a lot of folks think it is OK to push the stock T3 to 17-18psi because they can and it saves money but they would be surprised at how much heat that generates. In your case if you are going to spend money for a turbo, do not get a T3. With an upgraded turbo you make the same power from a lot less boost and a lot less heat. Do not focus on HP. Focus your combo and tuning to reduce heat and detonation and the HP will be there because you will be able to run more boost safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaconsultants Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I have to agree with Scottie-GNZ on not focusing on the HP, get it right and see where the HP ends up and usually it turns out that people are satisfied. Also if you still want to run the high compression find a or design a good water injection system and mix 40% Meth to 60% water. Edelbrock use to make a Vara-injection system that worked well. But if you have the money and the time the best intercooler system is to have a dual fluid flow (air as one fluid obvious) the second is to run lines from your AC compressor so you can use freon as the second fluid. This will drop your intake tempurature down a good 50 to 60 degrees, which means you can run higher compression and more boost. Also you did not mention if you are running forged or turbo pistons. My suggestion is find some forged 280ZXt pistons which have a higher top and the piston lands are set a little lower, because if you are running cast pistons you will break your piston lands and get some serious engine bucking (for a lack of a better word). For good reading and info look for books on turbo charging. The better Author would be Corky Bell who designed and made turbo kits in the past for Z, RX7, and several other cars. He has done some very interesting stuff - he last resided in Dallas area. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Good comments but sorry, I have to disagree on the recommendation for forged pistons. His HP goal is 275-300hp (yea, right!) and even another 30-40hp beyond that, there is no need to even open the engine or put in a cam if the focus is on limiting detonation. I think too many folks underestimate the strength of stock turbo engines when tuned right. I say for up to 350hp, focus on quality bolt-ons and tuning. When you decide to get serious about power (300hp is not serious) then you start working on increasing the flow with headwork, cam, full T04 and forged pistons for extra insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Poly Zmanaustin Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Good comments but sorry, I have to disagree on the recommendation for forged pistons. His HP goal is 275-300hp (yea, right!) and even another 30-40hp beyond that, there is no need to even open the engine or put in a cam if the focus is on limiting detonation. I think too many folks underestimate the strength of stock turbo engines when tuned right. I say for up to 350hp, focus on quality bolt-ons and tuning. When you decide to get serious about power (300hp is not serious) then you start working on increasing the flow with headwork, cam, full T04 and forged pistons for extra insurance. I will second that. I was pushing 340hp out of my setup with stock internals with zero issues. These engines are very strong in stock form. I would be more concerned about detonation and tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeiss150 Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 You guy rock! This has been a great wealth of info for me. Let me clear up a few things... my original idea behind this post was to find someone that had done an N42 "high" CR turbo car. what I fould was no one has done it ... and for what seem like a good reason... it's a bad idea! The only reason I was considering it was because I alread have an N42 9.2:1 CR with cam N/A SU'd, header, 21/2 in exaust motor. Here is what i've decided to do ... Switch to a P90 head which will drop my CR to 8.07:1 use the stock Z31 water cooled T3 that I already bought and reabuilt myself for a little over $200 (long live Ebay) use a bitch'n IC Use megasquirt 380 injectors with N42 intake (already have it) 60mm throttle body (I already have it) custome down pipe 2 1/2 in exause (I allready have it on the car so...) Some kind of a BOV and Im sure a bunch of other stuff that im forgetting right now. As far as RWHP I would love to get 300 but if its only 225, bitch'n ... if it's more ... more bitch'n! A lot of you have suggested water and alchohal injection ... I didn't even know you could do that, so thats pretty much out of the question, but it was neet to learn about. I'm really trying to build a 0-60 between 4.3 and 5.3 sec car that will make a great daily driver on crapy california 91 oct. I've been reading my a$$ off, corky bells book, about a million threads on hybrid Z, and anything eles I can find. I don't need a 10 second car or hell even 12 sec or 13 for that matter. So I think that should clear up what kind of power and performance that im looking for. So how does my plan look? Rock on Z people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 If you want to look into the alcohol injection then check out the post I made showing my setup. There are definatly alot fancier setups out there but this one does the job and was VERY cheap to put together. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105547 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 You guy rock! This has been a great wealth of info for me. Let me clear up a few things... my original idea behind this post was to find someone that had done an N42 "high" CR turbo car. what I fould was no one has done it ... and for what seem like a good reason... it's a bad idea! The only reason I was considering it was because I alread have an N42 9.2:1 CR with cam N/A SU'd' date=' header, 21/2 in exaust motor. [/color']Here is what i've decided to do ... Switch to a P90 head which will drop my CR to 8.07:1 use the stock Z31 water cooled T3 that I already bought and reabuilt myself for a little over $200 (long live Ebay) use a bitch'n IC Use megasquirt 380 injectors with N42 intake (already have it) 60mm throttle body (I already have it) custome down pipe 2 1/2 in exause (I allready have it on the car so...) Some kind of a BOV and Im sure a bunch of other stuff that im forgetting right now. That looks like you are going in the right general direction. Just to make you feel better, if the money that you had wrapped up in the N42 was from the cam (as opposed to really well done port work or something), you almost certainly would have wanted to change the cam out, anyway. N/A performance cams don't work well at all in turbo engines - the stock cam will probably work better. Also, the advice on getting something else for the turbo should not be discounted. This can make a really big difference, especially in the amount of heat added to acheive boost, as Scottie already mentioned - just because you have dropped your cr doesn't make this any less important. You could always sell your Z31 turbo on eBay and get something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 just.... don't completely discount the capabilities of the stock T3, and you don't always need to push it to insane boost levels to get decent power. Especially if he's gonna go aftermarket programmable EFI, I think his end power goal is well within the range of the T3, and he won't need to run 18psi of boost to get it. Again, we have one member who made 292 rwhp at 14psi with megasquirt, and most people seem to agree that the turbo isn't really being 'strained' until past 15psi. A good I/C will deal nicely with the extra heat at 14psi, I think. Lord knows plenty of guys run that much boost w/o any real detonation problems. But yeah I agree, if you ARE going to spend ANY money on the turbo itself, like as in rebuilding a stock T3, then yeah definately don't bother. Us guys stuck with the T3 are using it for just that reason, because we are STUCK with it... me myself I'm just too poor to afford to upgrade if you're gonna spend money though upgrading is definately the better idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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