510six Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 The combustion chambers ,valves, pistons intake and exhaust ports intake and exhaust manifolds were all ceramic coated.The Camshaft rockers and pivot balls for the rockers as well as the cam tower bearings were all coated with DFL dry film lubricant. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sss510six/album?.dir=/63ef&urlhint=actn,del%3as,1%3af,0 http://www.techlinecoatings.com/introduction.html I was convinced about the coatings after seeing a set of pistons from a 300zxtt Bonneville Salt Flats car after detonation had set in so bad that the heads had dime size pieces missing from the aluminum in the combustion chambers and were renderred useless.While the CBX coated pistons were unharmed and even re used in another motor.My previous N20 turbo drag motor was damaged by detonation after a momentary fuel starvation problem, I belive that if I would have had had all of the parts coated pistons, combustion chamber, valves..ect.That the motor would still be running 1/4 miles and ingesting compressed air and N20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 how much did it cost you to do all that. i would not mind having that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 I split the cost of the ceramic coating(CBX) the dry film lubricant (DFL) and the WSX,which is a cylinder wall and a valve guide lubricant.My half was around $60.A bag of 120 grit aluminum oxide was $22 and a quart of laquer thinner was $6.All of the parts were heated in a standard electric oven with the exception of the head that cost me $45 to have it heated to temp for an hour in a head straightening oven.Doing it yourself is labor intensive ,but quite a bit cheaper than having a shop do it.The exhaust manifold was coated with 2000* resistant coating inside and out and it cost me a little over $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapiper Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Piston dome coatings will not stop detonation and the coating will be worn away by the erosion of repeated detonation. Save your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 I have seen a set of pistons taken out of a 300zx tt Bonneville car, that had detonated so badly that dime size piece of aluminum were missing from the combustion chambers.The heads were uncoated the pistons were coated with CBX and the skirts had dry film lubricant on them.They were inspected and found to be undamaged , cleaned and reused in another motor.I know ceramic coating will not stop detonation, I have seen where it will momentarily prevent detonation from using the aluminum in the piston as fuel. I will try to get a few pictures of the damaged heads it was scary looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Playing with fire here. Potential to make a small amount more hp, and potential to absolutely root everything in your engine if the coating decides to seperate. You surely should be listening with a proper detonation detector while tuning your car, then its a matter of checking everything is still happy so it doesn't lean out while driving hard. If something goes wrong and you get a lot of detonation SOMETHING is going to go bust. If its not the head gasket, its the pistons. Nothing will hold up against hard det. So all you are doing is buying yourself an extra few seconds or so before something goes pop, but running the risk of shagging your engine entirely. I think I'll just check the fuel pressure before i go out on the track each time. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Ceramic coatings help prevent detonation and make a few more hp. By preventing as much heat being transferred to the combustion chamber and reducing the temp of the combustion chamber, especially the exhaust valve, detonation occurs later than it would with an uncoated chamber. You can still get the engine to detonate, but it provides a safety margin, pushing the ragged edge a little farther away. Since less heat is lost to the chamber, more of it stays in the working fluid, the fuel/air mixture, which means the fluid has more energy and can do more work, i.e. push the piston down, which makes more power. Another benefit is that heat staying in the fluid doesn't have to dealt with by the engines cooling system, so a coated engine will run cooler. The difference isn't huge, but it's there. Practically all modern race engines make extensive use of ceramic and dry film coatings. For a serious engine, it's money well spent in terms of both durability and output. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Playing with fire here. Potential to make a small amount more hp, and potential to absolutely root everything in your engine if the coating decides to seperate. Not so sure about that. The later 911 engines had ceramic coated ports. Every once in a while you'll find one port that doesn't have any coating it it. It has cracked off and traveled through the engine. When I worked at a Porsche shop years ago we saw a bunch of these as we were doing rebuilds for worn out engines, but never saw an engine that was destroyed or had any noticeable damage from the coating going thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I'm asuming you're talking about exhaust ports? Does porsche cost the exh ports of turbo cars? Did you look at the turbine blades on one that'd separated. I was more talking about the stuff that happens in the combustion chamber. Not after it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 IIRC it was in the INTAKE ports. It's been a good 7 or 8 years, but I'm fairly positive. They were NA motors I'm 95% sure. Did a quickie search, the 92 and later motors had ceramic exhaust port liners, I would swear some had the intake coated as well because my boss and I had talked about the ceramic going through. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 There ya go. I would still say its playing with fire and that what we do in our back yards isn't really that comparable to what porsche does as part of its manufacturing procedures. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 As far as detonation goes, the main reason I am switching from a SDS efi system to an AEM EMS is the ability to run a programable knock sensor and the fact that the fuel for the N20 can be programmed to be enriched by the injectors.I not planning on running this motor on the ragged edge of detonation, just looking for every safeguard possible.I`m not ranking on SDS either it does what it does just fine.It can`t do what the AEM can. http://www.aempower.com/product_ems.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I wouldn't trust an electronic knock sensor with a whipper-snipper engine. The two things attached to the side of your head are the best knock sensors in the world. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 save your $$$ and spend it on something else. Ever seen what happens when a piece or pieces of the coating comes off inside an engine? No thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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