260DET Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Seeing that the project S130 is on the way, better start getting serious. Would like to use a VG33 and turbocharge it, maybe 8.5:1 CR, looking for ~500whp and reliability. I know that the VG33 can be bored out to 3.4 liters using Q45 pistons but the resulting high compression ratio seems to be a problem. Escort Racing make suitable forged pistons but they are too expensive. Also the 33 has a cast crank so that could be a problem? If its all going to cost too much I'd prefer to use a VG30DET or DETT, even though the single cam VG is my preference. There is info around on mixing and matching the 3 liter VG stuff, its just that I'd prefer more engine capacity. So, is there any cost effective way to mix and match parts so I can end up with a single cam VG with low CR forged pistons, forged internals and more than 3 liter capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I wouldn't be too worried about the crank. They seem to handle some major abuse pretty well. There's plenty of Z31 guys making 300, 400, even 500+ whp on the stock crank. To be on the safe side you could have it cryo treated or one of the other numerous tricks to strengthen it but the crank shouldn't be the weak point. BRC makes really good forged pistons for a very decent prices. I think they used to be $550 for a set of 6. I'm not sure if they're still that price but I'm sure they are still pretty affordable. The Q45 piston setup isn't really all that high compression because what it all really comes down to is tuning. If you can keep the tuning good it should last quite a while. The VQ Maxima guys are making some pretty amazing power even though the VQ's are either 10:1 or higher. So far from what everyone can tell the majority of the engines that've blown are due to tuning issues. Either way though, the VG33 with boost should make some pretty awesome torque. That would definitely be a fun project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Thanks MtC, yeh you've mentioned BRC pistons before, will check them out. I believe the VG30DETT crank will fit but not sure about which oil pump will and which has the highest capacity. Got any idea what RPM a decent VG33 would make power to? With say a GT35R turbo, cam, maybe oversize valves. I'm thinking 7000 max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Link to BRC http://www.brcperformance.com/about.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks MtC' date=' yeh you've mentioned BRC pistons before, will check them out. I believe the VG30DETT crank will fit but not sure about which oil pump will and which has the highest capacity. Got any idea what RPM a decent VG33 would make power to? With say a GT35R turbo, cam, maybe oversize valves. I'm thinking 7000 max.[/quote'] Actually... oddly enough most Z31 guys don't recommend swapping the TT crank. It seems odd but they claim that keeping the stock one will handle more than enough power. Supposedly the VG33 is a good upgrade over the VG30 for some higher outputs. They're essentially the same minus the displacement, which will allow for some more power of course. I believe Ferria makes 1 mm oversized valves but some say they don't leave enough material in the head. If nothing else a good port and polish with some good cams should do the trick but those might be a pretty good option down the road as well. With some aftermarket springs you should be able to run it up to 7 grand. A lot of guys will say that it wouldn't matter to run it up that high since sohc VG's tend to not make that much power up there but on a Maxima, normally aspirated, the 7,000 rpm redline was proven to work pretty well. With boost it should only be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I heard a nasty rumor that some cedric motors (VG30DET's) had extra thick cylinder wall castings and could be bored to VG33 sizes. I wonder if theres any validity to this? I knwo it doesnt answer your question, but it is food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Yeh MtC, I've noticed what you say too. Obviously the VG30DET/TT forged crank would be stronger, my philosophy on a hi-po engine is to build it as strong as possible within a budget. Even if something like a cast crank may not break, it could flex more than a forged one so causing other problems. I'll check with a crank expert but if it all gets too complicated the VG30DET may be first choice. Any idea Mack which Cedric blocks may be stronger? A bigger capacity sounds good. On the RPM thing with a VG30E, seeing that L28's can make power to 7K the better breathing VG has to be able to do the same at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Ill have to go dig around in NICOclub.com, a few there were telling me about it... OH! wait!!!!!!! there is a guy named mattback that was telling me about it. he was putting VG30ET's in 240SX's and he was researching the VG30DET as an alternative. Ill dig through my emails and see if he gave me any more information other than "certain cedric blocks" lol also, wasnt there an 84 300zx in the 8's running a VG30ET? I seem to recall he was in peurto rico or something..... and it was red. could have even been 7's, not sure. strong motor for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Obviously the VG30DET/TT forged crank would be stronger For some reason, some of the Z31 guys say they've seen more forged cranks break than the cast cranks (i'm not sure if they're talking about after a swap or not). If its after a swap it makes me wonder if its just installation error or something.... hmm... unless they're talking about the crank snout since that needs to be machined. I'll have to look into that some more. Either way, I actually have a forged crank, rods, and cast pistons from a TTZ myself that I was planning on putting in one of my VG's. The rods at the very least will be a good upgrade. Pistons won't work due to the combustion chamber differences (DE(TT)'s ~44 cc to the E(T)'s ~55 cc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Aaaaagh, this is getting too much. The crankshaft reconditioner tells me he cannot recall ever seeing a cast Nissan V6 crank, all forged as far as he knows. Wonder if Nissan made both cast and forged for the same engines? Some markets got cast, some did'nt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm pretty sure the VG30E(T)'s have cast cranks. What are things to look for to see if they're cast? I have 4 VG's laying around the garage as well as the TT forged crank so I can check them out to find out whether or not they're cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 That would be good if you could do that MtC. Maybe compare the surface finish of the unmachined part of the TT crank with the others? It should be different you'd think. The forged cranks and rods I've seen have a broad line along the length of the item which I guess is the part in between the two dies that are used to form the forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Alright. I'm likely going out to the garage tonight to work on some things so I'll take a look at them then. The days are finally getting a bit longer so I actually have a bit of sunlight after work... although... I guess if I had some lights in the garage that would help. A halogen and work light isn't enough for a 20'-ish by 40'-ish quanset building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 hey, i'm really sorry. i didn't get a chance to go check those out at all last night. i was working on a co-worker's home computer and well... lets just say they have 56k at their house and most of the work i had to do required downloading. i'm planning on getting out there tonight though so hopefully i'll have some info for you later tonight or tomorrow morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 No worries, no hurry, MtC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Looking at the them both, I'd say that the VG30E(T) definitely has a cast crank. The VG30E crank doesn't look quite as smooth as the TT crank did. I've never actually heard anyone say that the VG30E(T) crank wasn't cast so I'd say that the mechanic must be thinking of something else... not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 Thanks for that MtC, appreciated. Anyway, another rethink on the engine choice, whatever it is its going to have forged internals. How is your V8 project going, fit in the S30 OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Its going... well, slow. I've not have much of a chance to work on it yet but something should start coming together pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Looks like it will be a VG30DET, would still prefer a single cam VG but using a cast crank in a ~500whp engine is a risk best avoided. Building up a forged internals VG single cam would be excessively expensive at the moment, may do that later once the project is up and running. Bit disappointing, love the light weight and simplicity of the single cammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I think you will be happy with the DET, from what I have read, those things are tanks (in a good way) ball bearing turbo on some models, long block is capable of supporting 500RWHP. Plus, I saw a side by side pic comparing the DET heads to the DETT heads and the DET intake ports DWARFED the DETT ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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