ZsRUSTIN Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Hey guys, I am near the end of installing a R200 conversion with 300ZXT CV axles in my 73 240Z. I got the billet flanges from M. M. and a set of 280ZX stub axles with new bearings and seals. I did the CV shortening modification according to M.M.s tech sheet. The problem is when I try to slide the drivers side 4 bolt end of the axle into the billet flange the sheet metal CV cover starts to pop off. It seems the axle is too long. I attempted this with the control arms jacked up so the axles are straight out parallel to the ground. The splined end of the axle is bottoming out on the threaded end of the stub axle and distorting the end cap. The passenger side installed OK, but it also appears to be to bottoming out when the control arm is lowered all the way. I've been messing with this for a few days and I'm about to lose it... Any help would be great. Thanks, Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Are you sure you got both driver and passanger side? Where did you get the CV assembly. Did you removed them from the same car, or did you order them from a parts house. I've heard that some member's here actually got the same side axles when they ordered the pair. Did you measure them to make sure one is shorter than the other.http://www.magshooterz.com/z31_cv_conversion.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZsRUSTIN Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Hi, I got the axles from a Z auto recycler in NJ, outside NYC. He says they came from the same car, and yes, one is about 1" shorter. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I just reread the original post you said you got "280zx" stub axles? I think that's your problem. You got to get 76 to 78 "280z" stubs. By ZsRustin I got the billet flanges from M. M. and a set of 280ZX stub axles with new bearings and seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZsRUSTIN Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Whoops, my mistake They are 280Z axles. The fit is really close, like 1/8 inch too long at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 So you got the shorter shaft in the driver side? Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Did you flip the cage on the driver's CV? You have to take the CV apart. You've already found out that that cover on the bottom pops off. Take the cover and set it aside. Then push the cage and bearings out the bottom. Remove the snap ring, flip the cage, bearings, and inner race as an assembly. Put the snap ring back on, and reassemble. By swapping the cage assy you'll get the travel you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/graphequ@pacbell.net/detail?.dir=/e8e5&.dnm=9766scd.jpg&.src=phHere's a link to the flipped bearing that jmortenson is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZsRUSTIN Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Hi, I allready flipped the cage on the axles. In original post... I did the CV shortening modification according to M.M.s tech sheet. Its like I mentioned, it is very close to fitting. I can actually pry it in place, though its bottomed out. This is while axle is parallel to ground. And yes, the short one is on drivers side. I dont think the long one would even come close to fitting on the drivers side. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Are you trying to install the cv's with the suspension all bolted up/installed? To get the cv's in you have to either unbolt the inner suspension mounts or you unbolt the top of the strut mounts and lower the struts and tilt out. Due to manufacturing tolerences when the car was built, your car maybe slightly narrower, or was in an accident ( most likely) in it's 30 odd years of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean73 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 What does Ross at MM say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I had the same problem I had to remove my passanger side LCA and swing it out to get it in, if you support the suspension compressed it shoud be easier to get in as this allows the LCA's to swing up and pushing the hub out where ti will reside in normal conditions, I emailed ross and here is his responce, pretty much what I just explained: Dave, thanks for your feedback. For your CV installation if geometries tight, you can jack up your strut/bearing housing such that it's approximately level similar to static ride height geometry as this is your longest longest length for install. As your car would be supported on blocks or jackstands for safety your floorjack should be available for temporary boost under the strut housing. It's not related to sectioned or shorter struts etc as they go into full droop when unloaded either way. At droop it's shorter as you discovered. I appreciate your comment as often we make assumptions and until we hear a question on it we're not always aware of what customers encounter and this greatly helps us. We're putting together some installation how-to's and these tips are excellent. Was the product to your satisfaction? Any further questions on this or any other packages please feel free to drop us a note anytime. We'd greatly appreciate a webshop package review from yourself when convenient. Cheers, Ross Corrigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Am I being dense, or does that basically mean that the CV shaft is going to bind at some point in the suspension travel? And if it binds when down, would it not bind when up too? The whole reason I did the CV conversion was to get away from binding the stock halfshafts. Haven't assembled and tested it for bind yet, now I'm hoping I didn't waste my $$$... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 at full extension it could bind, I guess with a sway bar it would keep the arm from reaching full extension, however it does seem to interfere with the forward mounted bar, I need to find a new way to mount my rear bar to get back to managable levels of understeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean73 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Is the geometry of the billet CV adapter the same as the welded adapter? I'm asking, because it would seem to me that the billet adapter could be made with a lower profile to allow for more play in the CV shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZsRUSTIN Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 Hey guys, thanks for all the help. I got a response from Ross at M.M. He got back to me within an hour. In addition to great products, he seems like a really nice guy. I mentioned to him that the passenger side also seemed tight at full extension. He stated that was normal, so the tolerances with these axles is really close. Like FASTZCARS stated it could have had an slight accident in its life, but the diff bolts into the same carrier assy that locates the lower control arms. And if my car was "tweaked", and the drivers side was tight I would think that the pass side would have some extra play. I measured the travel on the pass side lower control arm without the axles and it normally stops when the strut travel reaches max extension. With the axle hooked up it slows down and stops about 1 inch short of the maximum travel. It would seem that the bottoming out of the CV axle against the end of the stub axle is stopping it. I think if you removed 1/4 inch from the end of the stub axle the flange could also be 1/4 inch shorter. It would give about 3/8 inch clearance. This is a part of the e-mail I sent Ross. Question: The passenger side installed OK, but it also appears to be to bottoming out when the control arm is lowered all the way. Reply: It will bottom out at full droop quite likely, your car will never see this in actual use/function so this is fine. Hmmmm... Thanks again, Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZsRUSTIN Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 Am I being dense, or does that basically mean that the CV shaft is going to bind at some point in the suspension travel? And if it binds when down, would it not bind when up too? The whole reason I did the CV conversion was to get away from binding the stock halfshafts. Haven't assembled and tested it for bind yet, now I'm hoping I didn't waste my $$$... Hi Jon, the control arms on our Zs are quite short. So just like the older dirt bikes where the chain is tightest when parallel to the sprocket/ swingarm pivot and looser when up and down, the axles are loosest at parallel and tighter when up or down on our Zs. This is why most modern race bikes have the rear suspension pivot in the engine cases right near the sprocket, to minimize this loose/tight action. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Yeah, I understand what you're saying, and I don't think full droop is going to be an issue on my car since I have camber plates and sectioned struts. What I'm more worried about is that there might be some bind in the CV at full compression. I guess I'll have to test it to know for sure, but the whole point of doing CV's for me was to eliminate the bind that happens for the same reasons with stock halfshafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 in responce to the comment about machineing the adapters down, it's not ossible unless the stub axle were shortened as well, the MM adapter is machined in such close tolerence that the cap is basically resting against the stub axle, the only way to gain any extra slack would be to shorten the shaft or do a different swap, I was quite pleases to find replacement Z31 shafts available and priced at just $60 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 When I made my own adapters about 5 years ago, I shortened the stub shafts (one thread past a 280zx locknut) and made the adapter as thin as I could. My concern was with my adjustable control arms that I would be bottoming the CV. I also flipped the cage in the outer joint. I have lots of room to upbolt the shaft and take it out without unbolting any suspension. It may be that you have a strut assy with the lower throughbolt hole drilled at an angle. It is not that rare to find that being the case. I've personally seen at least two of them come through. Seems as the had a bit of a problem with tolerance in production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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