Mike Rowe Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I am about to rebore my motor and am considering what pistons. The N1 pistons are only A$800 vs HKS at $1800. Has anyone used the N1 pistons and in what way are they different to the standard - eg thicker, stronger material? Can anyone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1972_240z Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 in my eyes (working with honda's) i always went with better quality known brands. in my opinion, go with the hks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Why are you not looking at JE, Wiseco, Ross, etc...? I'm certain HKS doesn't forge their own pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rowe Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 Why are you not looking at JE, Wiseco, Ross, etc...? I'm certain HKS doesn't forge their own pistons. Hi Jamie, thanks for your response, HKS do make their own pistons I have seen them at a workshop here. The particular place mostly only use the HKS forged pistons as they say they are the best fit and best quality. Given that I only want a max of 400HP at the wheels, which I am told is not a problem, and I'm not going to race the car, I'm loath to spend A$1800 on HKS forged pistons when I can get N1 pistons & rings for A$800. I can get Arias and other makes for about $1300 but I am told they can be a bit rattly etc. What is you experience and how much do the forged pistons & rings cost over your way? Also I was just going to get my rods shotpened ($150), what are your thoughts on that? regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftrd Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Wiseco pistons run $640 for the set, including rings from Race Engineering. They're coated and have an offset pin to eliminate cold engine piston slap. JE's are $110 per piston. I get the Arias pistons for $1100 per set with rings including $100 for shipping from a supplier in Australia. HKS pistons don"t slap because they're made from a high silicone alloy, which is good for reducing expansion but bad for heat durability when compared to a low or zero silicone piston. Even on a high HP engine running 0.11mm clearance, any noise is gone once the engine warms up. If you don't rev it hard when it's cold, you shouldn't hear any noise anyway. N1 pistons are cast and not really any better than stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rowe Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Wiseco pistons run $640 for the set, including rings from Race Engineering. They're coated and have an offset pin to eliminate cold engine piston slap. JE's are $110 per piston. I get the Arias pistons for $1100 per set with rings including $100 for shipping from a supplier in Australia. HKS pistons don"t slap because they're made from a high silicone alloy, which is good for reducing expansion but bad for heat durability when compared to a low or zero silicone piston. Even on a high HP engine running 0.11mm clearance, any noise is gone once the engine warms up. If you don't rev it hard when it's cold, you shouldn't hear any noise anyway. N1 pistons are cast and not really any better than stock. Hi Matt, thanks as usual for your informative advice. The $'s you are quoting is that US or Aust $'s? The Arias I can get from Tony at JustJap in Aust is that where you get them from or is there somewhere else you can point me to? At $300 more Aust I would go for those if you think they are a better piston. What about the rods, is shotpening enough? And steel head gasket needed or not? They are very expensive here and as I'm only looking at 400-500hp do I really need the steel head gasket? Appreciate your advice Regards Mike Rowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HakosukaJD Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I have the N1's in my 2.7L RB. I'm making 500HP and have seen quite a few track miles at Laguna Seca. They are the preferred pistons at that power for a friend who has been professionally building RB engines for 17 years. If you looking to go around 500PS, the N1's will work well for you. I am about to rebore my motor and am considering what pistons. The N1 pistons are only A$800 vs HKS at $1800. Has anyone used the N1 pistons and in what way are they different to the standard - eg thicker' date=' stronger material?Can anyone help?[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftrd Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Hi Matt' date=' thanks as usual for your informative advice. The $'s you are quoting is that US or Aust $'s? The Arias I can get from Tony at JustJap in Aust is that where you get them from or is there somewhere else you can point me to? At $300 more Aust I would go for those if you think they are a better piston. What about the rods, is shotpening enough? And steel head gasket needed or not? They are very expensive here and as I'm only looking at 400-500hp do I really need the steel head gasket? Appreciate your advice Regards Mike Rowe[/quote'] Mike, those prices are in $US. Additionally, Eagle rods are $539/set US. I get the Arias pistons through Rocket Ind. at Arias jobber cost and can pass that savings to you, but you would have to pay shipping back to AUS!! N1 pistons, as well as stock ones, will work at 500hp. They will, however, be much closer to the edge than a forged piston. #6 loves to drop ring lands at the slightest hint of detonation at these power levels. If a stock piston fails, the N1 piston will too. So, the question you must ask is: If I'm overhauling the engine anyway, and I can get a set of forged pistons for at or near the same cost as the N1, which should I use? A word on Arias. Last year, out of 10 sets of Arias pistons I bought, 8 sets had the wrong rings FROM ARIAS. In every case, the rings were replaced for free, but a novice builder just bolting the engine back together would have missed it.... Inexpensive Wiseco pistons will be good for well over what you're looking for. Rod failure in the 26 will take one of two forms; big end elongation resulting in worn/spun bearings, and bolt failure resulting in additional crank case ventilation. These are not power related, but rather rpm related. The stock rods are good for 600+ hp, but you must keep the rpm's in check. If you keep the rpm's limited to around 7,500, and make the power on boost, the stock rods will be fine. The Eagle ESP3D H beams are priced around the same cost as stock with much better quality and use ARP2000 bolts. This is good for peace of mind and will allow the engine to rev through 9,000. Although I've used them and have yet to see a failure, I will say that the price scares me.... No need for a billet rod like Carrilo or Pauter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rowe Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 thanks Matt, for a very full explanation. Much appreciated. How about the steel head gasket - needed or not for 500hp and the odd car day out but no full on consistent racing? regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HakosukaJD Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 At 500HP, you'll be running 1.2-1.4Bar...or (In the case of an R32) almost twice the stock boost. For $120 US, why take the chance? thanks Matt' date=' for a very full explanation. Much appreciated.How about the steel head gasket - needed or not for 500hp and the odd car day out but no full on consistent racing? regards Mike[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftrd Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 At 500HP' date=' you'll be running 1.2-1.4Bar...or (In the case of an R32) almost twice the stock boost. For $120 US, why take the chance?[/quote'] Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Hi Matt, did you ever get the last PM I sent you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftrd Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Hi Matt, did you ever get the last PM I sent you ? Just read it. Let me know if you still want it. Can have it in the mail tomorrow. NTT installed fiber at the house. I haven't had email in a month....still waiting for them to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Just read it. Let me know if you still want it. Can have it in the mail tomorrow. NTT installed fiber at the house. I haven't had email in a month....still waiting for them to fix it. YES!! I'll take it, and once again Matt, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Taylor Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Just curious, but why are you building a motor to only make 400-500hp? My rb25 makes 489 rwhp with me tuning it and on pumpgas. This is on a completely stock longblock, down to the factory headgasket and head bolts. Just some food for thought. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Just read it. Let me know if you still want it. Can have it in the mail tomorrow. NTT installed fiber at the house. I haven't had email in a month....still waiting for them to fix it. *Sorry for the hijack* Matt, got right back to you via PM, but you haven't opened it up yet. I still need that part soon as possible. I would have emailed you but I lost everybodys email addys due to a email trojan. Please PM me your email addy when you read this and let me know everythings a go... thanks - joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HakosukaJD Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Above 500 HP there is a large jump in financial requirements. The transmission is going to need work, half-shafts, chassis strengthening, and the parts needed to make the power jump up in price about there as well..... Just curious' date=' but why are you building a motor to only make 400-500hp? My rb25 makes 489 rwhp with me tuning it and on pumpgas. This is on a completely stock longblock, down to the factory headgasket and head bolts. Just some food for thought. JT[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rowe Posted April 13, 2006 Author Share Posted April 13, 2006 Thanks very much for everyones comments. I have decided to use forged pistons & rods. Regards the head gasket - which type are you referring to at US$120 as here I am quoted A$600 which is a lot more than you are quoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftrd Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Thanks very much for everyones comments. I have decided to use forged pistons & rods. Regards the head gasket - which type are you referring to at US$120 as here I am quoted A$600 which is a lot more than you are quoting. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=109378 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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