Engine Swap Size /Weight Chart

[RacerX]

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[s3079893]

I saw the 5.4L DOHC, 5.0L windsor and LS1 pretty much right next to each other at the Melb F1 GP and I still cant figure out why that 5.4L engine is so big, it even makes the LS1 look tiny. Who ever completes this swap first will get my undivided love and respect.

[blueovalz]

I would love to have both the 302 and 351 Windsor motors in pieces to compare weights. I did not realize the difference between the two was 120lbs. I could see perhaps 20 lbs extra on the crank, and perhaps 50 extra with the block (if that much). Hmmm

[s3079893]

Holly crap yeah thats a huge difference, your better off just going for a 347 stroker kit

[Dp351zcar]

I have a 500lb scale I borrowed from a friend to weigh my motors. I have a rebuilt 302 with a stock iron heads but alum intake and the scale said 430lbs with 25lbs in balance beam and rigging. It was just the complete engine no alt, no carb, no starter but it did have a flex plate.

 

I weighed my 351 with the same rigging but my 351 has lighter pistons (J&E) lighter balancer and alum heads and manifold, no flywheel. The scale said 420.

So without the rigging. 351=395lbs ?

302=405lbs

The scale is dead on as it has to be as it is used to test loads for small hoists.

 

I know that dosen't sound right but that is what I got.

I have pictures of the tests.

 

Don

[blueovalz]

302=305lbs

Should this not be 405 lbs instead of 305 lbs?)

 

Can I modify this to make the comparison of a 302 @ 405 lbs, and a 351 @ 470 lbs with same equipment (cast iron heads, aluminimum intake, flexplate, and same harmonic balancer)??

 

Were there any other differences in equipment on these blocks (exhaust manifolds, etc?) This if very important to me as I am conteplating such a swap.

[Dp351zcar]

Thats it Terry, nail me to the wall for a slip of the keys (or brain fade).

 

The motors did not have any exhaust on them and the 302 had the stock steel damper, the 351 is a alum Romac unit. The 302 is all stock except for the intake Edelbrock sp2p and a mild comp cam. The flex plate on the 302 only would add a couple of pounds.

The 351 has alum heads and a victor jr on it and I hope everything is put back in the engine.

 

If you want to see the the engines as I weighed them PM me with your Email address and tell me if you want small or large pics.

 

I do not have a chev here to weigh so we could use it to use as a comparison.

 

Don

[blueovalz]

Well, you've just about verified what I already thought, which was about 75 lbs added when I swap to a 351w block. I am guessing the 350 is another 50 lbs on top of that.

[s3079893]

are the 302 and 351 mounting locations. For example if you had a 302 in your z, could you put a 351 in it with the same mounts?

[wheelman]

I saw the 5.4L DOHC, 5.0L windsor and LS1 pretty much right next to each other at the Melb F1 GP and I still cant figure out why that 5.4L engine is so big, it even makes the LS1 look tiny. Who ever completes this swap first will get my undivided love and respect. [/size']

 

The primary reason the 5.4 is so much larger than the LS1 is it's dual overhead cam configuration. It adds width and height to change a single cam in the center of the block like the LS1 to 2 cams in each head like the 5.4.

 

Wheelman

[blueovalz]

if you had a 302 in your z, could you put a 351 in it with the same mounts?

 

Yes, but the added height may be an issue. The information shown above indicates the 351 is 3" taller, but I would like to see this explained. The deck height increase from a 302 is about 1.3" at a 45 degree angle, which equates to roughly a 1" height increase, and about a 2" (1" per side) width increase. Obviously the manifold must be taller than a 302 manifold, but I cannot see it as being a full 2" taller than a 302 manifold, plus, different manifolds have varying heights, so you may be able to get a relatively flat 351 intake (suffering performance though).

After that, I can only assume the oil pan may be deeper as well.

 

Dp351zcar, anything you can add to this?

 

 

From Mustang Forums.com:

The 351 block is very similar to the 302. That means that almost all parts swap between a 302 and a 351. This includes: Heads, cam, lifters, timing chain, timing chain cover, water pump, engine mounts, and all sorts of other stuff. The bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as a 302, so all trannies that bolt to a 302 will bolt to a 351. However, there are some differences in the 351 that necessitate new parts:

 

1) The oil pan is different. Motorsports carries one. You can also get an oil pan of of an early eighties LTD Crown Vic. If you go the junkyard route, remember you also need a oil pan pickup tube, and a special main bolt that the pickup attaches to. The FMS pan is a pretty good deal, and if you shop around, you can get one for under $100, which comes with the dipstick, bolt, and pickup tube.

 

2) The internal balance of a 351W is the same as pre-81 302's (28.2 oz). The 5.0 HO has a 50 oz. unbalance, which means you cannot use the flexplate/flywheel or the harmanic balancer off of an HO engine. You have to get the correct pieces from a dealer/junkyard.

 

3) The deck height is higher, which means you need a different intake, since the 351W intake is wider. A 5.0 Upper will bolt to a 351W lower.

 

4) Also, a higher deck height means that the accessory bracket will need to be replaced. FMS sells the new bracket for about $50.

 

5) The higher deck height means the headers sit up higher than in a 302 powered Mustang. A special set is required for a 351.

 

6) A 351W will in all likelyhood not clear the stock hood. You will need a cowl hood for your car.

 

7) The distributor has a fatter shaft. You can obtain one from a 351W powered FI truck (if you are using FI) or any late 70's/early 80's car using the 351W and a Duraspark system if you are going to build a non-efi car.

[Dp351zcar]

Terry I just measured where the manifold sits flat over the valley (lowest point) on my motors and the 351 is about an inch higher. I used the timming cover as a reference point as they are the same on both motors. My oil pans are both front sump and are the same depth. Ford makes several diffrent pans shapes for these engines but a 351 pan will only fit a 351 because of the increased size of the main bearings.

 

Don

[blueovalz]

Good, that verifies the 1" taller block. My thinking is that my Victor Jr intake is pretty tall, so I'm sure I could find a 351W manifold that is flatter than the Victor Jr, and keep the increased height change to a minimum. Looking good so far.

[Dp351zcar]

Terry I have heard the Weiand Stealth is a very good manifold. I kind of want to get one instead of my Victor JR but it is low on my list at this time.

I think it could cut the height down but I don't know the measurements, they can be found on the web.

 

Don

[blueovalz]

Thanks Don,

 

Interesting. The Stealth intake (dual plane, but a high RPM dual plane) is about 3/4" shorter than the 302 Victor Jr intake I currently use.

 

FWIW, I recently found out that the deck height of the 4.6L (8.9") motor is shorter than the 351 (9.5"), but longer than the 302 (8.2"). Evidentally, the heads are where all that size is found. On the other hand, the 5.4L deck height (10") is very long. These values are rounded off a small amount.

[s3079893]

Thanks for the info blueovalz, most apriciated

[col]

Hi Im col from Australia.In QLD Aus we can put 4.4l engines in 280's without engineering ,any bigger costs big bucks.Im concidering lexus 4.0l quad cam v8 anyone have info on this conversion?.Does the extra weight in the front affect handling?

[rudypoochris]

Hi Im col from Australia.In QLD Aus we can put 4.4l engines in 280's without engineering ,any bigger costs big bucks.Im concidering lexus 4.0l quad cam v8 anyone have info on this conversion?.Does the extra weight in the front affect handling?

 

Come on now.... Wrong forum and you need to search. If try 1uz, I think that is what it is called.