Mikelly Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 Looked at the rear rotors and they are thin... So, since I'm gonna swap in some KVR pads, decided to go ahead and upgrade the rear rotors to the KVR slotted units as well... Now I'll be running Brembo cross drilled 300ZX rotors with Toyota V6 calipers on KVR Kevlar pads up front, cooled by 4 inch brake ducts and spindle ducts, and I'll be using the 79-81 rear disc with KVR slotted rotors and Kevlar pads in the rear.. Should be a nice streetable, yet aggressive setup! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 The WHOA is usually whimpy compared to the GO in most of our projects. Sounds like you're equalizing that. Something we all should seriously address. (Listen, John!) Mike, I'm not trying to knock the cross drilled rotors, and I feel your car is the most professionally approached and built project here, but I have read contradictions on cross drilling. Some say it will actually cause heating of the rotor (Baer Racing) and was designed to let asbestos pads de-gas and remain in contact with the rotor. Yet, everywhere you still see them offered even though asbestos is no longer used. Most say cross drilled will run cooler. Opinions? JS [This message has been edited by John Scott (edited September 25, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 These days, cross drilled rotors are usually used on race cars to lighten the discs - At least according to alot of reading I've done, and the Wilwood catalog and web site. Out gassing of pads is not usual with recent pad technology, once broken in. But lightening is not always good. Fade resistance is somewhat a function of rotor mass and venting. For a rear disc application, I'd think fade is less of an issue than the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted September 25, 2000 Author Share Posted September 25, 2000 John, Spot on with the comments about cross drilling of rotors. I have them Because I was given the units on the front, and the rears I bought back in 1993 before I knew any better! I'm told that you can offset some of the fade issues by using the front vented rotors and cooling ducts with the aid of duct spindle mounts to plumb cool air into the rotor hat. I'm going this route, as opposed to upgrading the diameter of the rotor upfront to offset cost vs. performance. The calipers I use up front are massive, and if I had my drothers, I'd have slotted rotors upfront as well. Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 Just FWIW, slotted or crossdrilled rotors can also be a maintenance item as brake dust collects/bakes. Most modern peformance pads have a groove that accomodates outgassing requirements. I most often hear of 'preventing' outgassing problems and having rotor fade/heat but it seems consisten that many want to prevent a problem they haven't proven exists (outgassing) Both processes reduce the rotor mass which is THE critical component for roadracing non-fade/temp issues as well as increasing heat stress/riser initiators. Herb Puhn explains it such that you have a nominal ave. temp of your rotor during a lapping day and during your max stop (say off a straightaway) from 150mph=>60mph that rotor HAS to be able to take all that heat as their is no significant cooling of the rotor during that single maneuvre. The rest of the time ducts etc are all essential to keep your ave. rotor temp reasonable etc but you can't get away from the initial mass requirement. Some only attend smaller tracks and/or never roadrace so won't have the same average rotor temp maybe. Just didnt' want that to be ignored. Rotors/pads etc will all live longer if the whole system stays in a happy temp range. <1000F was Puhn's max design temp. Quite an enjoyable book I found. Hope it didn't come across too strong, just seen some on other lists I"m on spend 100's on 'special' rotors and still warp them and have to clean out baked residue etc. I'll also never forget a modified Z32 w/ the 13" crossdrilled brembo setup, cracks from every hole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 Where did you buy the KVR pads, do they have a web pege? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 There's obviously lots to learn about stopping. Like many gear heads I've been hung up on the go part all my life. Spare 500 bucks? Into the engine every time. As I get older I realize the safty concerns of having brakes up to the caliber of the car. As my car matures with me, I can say excellent brakes are on the list. I'd like to see more discussions on the best stopping power for the money. Mike, and others, as you start to really push your car, I'd like to hear some reports on how the binders are performing. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 The slotted rotors will have less chance of failure, the drilled ones can be prone to cracking due to stress concentration . Make inspection a routine, especially on a sfatey item such as brakes . I hear the KVR's are the way to go for street/race . They are more friendly on the calipers, cheaper than HAWKS . Sounds like a good setup for a reasonable price, very intrested in your impressions of the KVR pads . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drewz Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 If you ever need to machine them you need a rotor machine that uses stones and not the conventional blades. My 2 cents here! ------------------ The only stupid question is one you wanted to ask but never did!!! Drewz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Great to find another KVR devotee! I absolutely LOVE their pads. Ran them on my OE brakes for 2 yrs and still hadn't gone thru the set and rotors looked like new! After 4 or 5 SIR lappin days (major brakes, overheated MC every time) and never could get them to fade at all. Great street and super track IMO. www.kvrperformance.com or a dash after kvr John mentioned brake system feedback/experiences. My OE system was OK but had no heat capacity under roadracing duty at lapping days. This winter I finally finished my 13" brake upgrade on my 280ZX. Noone has offered one so I finally spent better part of my free time for 8 mos (did NOT want wilwoods 'race' calipers with no dust seals requirign servicing once/twice a year!). working it thru. In the end I can say my custom system installs v. easily and immproves tenfold for ease of servicing/trackside or anywhere. I went thru Puhn's book and worked out what rotor size/mass I needed and 12's were too borderline for my setup. For a lighter 240 or 280 (I'd thought 280's were same as 280ZX but #'s look lower?) the 12's might be fine. Right now all I have is my custom 13" setup which I proved out v. well this summer at Mt. Shasta, last brake marker or later all over Thunderhill. Took a few for a ride to enjoy the 'anchor' effect:-) My system does neccessitate swapping to a 5 lug system as I've based my setup on slip on brembo rotors and some aluminum PBR calipers for v. easy rotor change if ever needed (always hated my OE bolt on rotor setup). A 2nd identical setup will be done towards Xmas as to verify it's as easy on another as it was on mine (ie. manufaturing tolerances etc). Then I'll offer it to others, runs ~$900US which includes all brake parts/hardware/custom SS lines/rotors/calipers/brackets etc. You convert your hubs yourself with easy dirxn's or I supply that complete at xtra $. Considering my setup is superior in specs to a 12"baer system that starts at $900 I was v. pleased to be able to do it for same dough for a non-production (ie. big) market/car. What I noticed as the huge gain was that now it is so much EASIER to modulate the brake effort from 90% to 99%. I'd guess OE system would compare as having 70% of same braking if that. An OE system of 40-50% less brake torque just can't find that modulation as it can't exert the same effort. John Haag of Denver road w/ me and experienced it but I haven't seen him in here yet (he has a V8 280ZX as well). PS The 13's are tucked under lightweight 16" wheels, haven't seen that v. often;^)Kept my corner weight same or less than OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 Hey Ross, did you manage to get the KVR's from anyone in vancouver? just wondering if there is a way to get them without having to do the exchange/duty/shipping thing. I'm going to need some new pads soon. ------------------ "THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE OIL OF THE NON-BELIEVERS" Drax240z 1972 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted September 26, 2000 Author Share Posted September 26, 2000 I have my current set dialed in and I took it to the local commuter lot and jacked it up to 60MPH on th entrance road and did 10 reroeated stops from 60MPH in less than 110 feet. I was very pleased with my small 10.9 inch pad setup. I have been a boig fan of KVR for some time, but currently have standard Borg Warner pads in the calipers.... I suspect I'll be able to stop as consistant or better with the new pads! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 quote: Originally posted by Drax240z: Hey Ross, did you manage to get the KVR's from anyone in vancouver? just wondering if there is a way to get them without having to do the exchange/duty/shipping thing. I'm going to need some new pads soon. KVR's out of Ontario so I usually just have them sent out from their, no duties etc as you know. You CAN (if big $'s are involved) have them ship to WA for ie. and bill a US address and no taxes are billed. Then you deal with border entry how you wish. I forgot to mention how CRITICAL it is to use KVR"s recc'd bed in procedure. If you don't they can dust off in a days hard use! Be sure to ask if they don't tell you. 5 or 6 40mph->10mph gradual stops AIR and then let it sit for a few hours to completely cool off. As usual you should always avoid bedding in new pads and rotors at the same time, one or the other but never both unless you have no option. PSS forgot to mention, all KVR pads I've bought were practically same price (or less!) than OE replacement pads, I saved the best part for last:-) [This message has been edited by Ross C (edited September 26, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Ross C (edited September 26, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Sweeeeeeet! And thanks, made up my mind for me. ------------------ "THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE OIL OF THE NON-BELIEVERS" Drax240z 1972 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhaag Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 I can attest to the stopping ability (and acceleration) of Ross Corrigan's brake mods. I've never stopped so fast or so straight. I had to change my shorts when I got home. I'd love to have a detailed description of every step he took in creating his system. I also know he put in many, many hours of design work and fabrication and deserves a lot of credit for the outcome. On another note, I purchased a 6 hp, 80 gallon air compressor (had several 220 volt outlets added to the garage) and just finished all the installation work on the piping. My Miller mig welder arrived and that's plugged into the 220 as well. My one car garage/shop is coming together but, of course, there are an endless number of tools I'd love to purchase. I'm looking forward to starting some of the hundreds (I dream a lot) of projects I'd still like to do to my ZX. John Haag ------------------ 1979 280ZX w/ 350 V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 Ross, interested if you have some lap times from Either SIR or THill. would like to compare a V8 ZX with my 510 for times? you would have a hell of a lot more HP but i would guess the 510 is very close even with your big brakes ------------------ Mike http://www.fonebooth.com raceparts and brakeupgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted September 29, 2000 Author Share Posted September 29, 2000 My parts came in today and KVR recommends breaking in the pads and rotors like this: "5-6 40mph-5mph regular stops repeated in a very short period of time, then park the car and let it sit for an hour." I'll be installing the setup next week along with the front pads. I'll be sure to follow their advice on the break in. FYI, The rotors are Brembo units and look very nice... There are only 6 slots, so the surface area isn't impacted with loss of matterial. I need to have my cross drilled rears mic'ed to see if there is any life left on them if so, I'll be putting them on the forsale board cheap! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 quote: Originally posted by scca: Ross, interested if you have some lap times from Either SIR or THill. would like to compare a V8 ZX with my 510 for times? you would have a hell of a lot more HP but i would guess the 510 is very close even with your big brakes Mike/SCCA: Well if you're not faster around a course after your hundreds (thousands?) of hours of driving I wouldn't keep asking you so many questions:-) My SIR day this summer was RAIN so 30mph down front/slick/chemical straight and big fun everywhere else. Thill was chicane'd at end of front and the 1st backstraightaway to save our inexperienced asses (otherwise you're running a 120mph sweeper/etc as a rookie!) My driving experience from the 7 or so days I've done is just starting to add up to some gains IMO. Your 1700lb (1800 for class limits?) may brake better with your setup on your v. light car/treads etc (ie your contact patch/weight/ratios's must smoke mine). Although I'd sure enjoy a 'brake-off'. I'm just starting to analyze susp. geometry to improve in this area having most of the basic hardware and pleased with it. I think a 0-100-0 contest would be fun:-) And I welcome driving lessons anytime:-) PSS ever driven first 3 turns at Thill at WOT (115-120mph)? I rode with just such a skilled driver in a wicked 510 (Russ Kelso), v. enjoyable! Ride of my life to date. Ross (28, back at school and just glad I have a fun daily/track car:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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