savageskaterkid Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Lately I've had a few problems getting my new Z to start. When I got a battery and had all the terminal wires replaced and such, I cranked it-didn't start. The I found this misc. wire that i hooked up and it fired up and idled a bit wierd. It would stay at about 500 rpms and it was almost like it was being choked-like it was coughing-so I messed with the timing(which helped very slightly). Then it just stopped running completly last week. I did a tune-up and such yesterday and it didn't help. All day I thought "Damn I hope its nuthing like bad rings or head gasket." Today a frend said to spray WD-40 into the intake(lack of aresol in the starter fluid can) I sprayed it in the intake, and it sputtered and finnally ran like its supposed to at idle. As soon as I stopped spraying, it stopped running. By now the can was pretty close to empty, so I got something else that was flammable. I used brake cleaner, once i sprayed that it ran good and even after I stopped spraying it ran for a few seconds after that and it sounded great. So I did it again. It sputtered a bit, and then BOOM(you know what a .38 sounds like when you fire it?) my intake hoses blew apart right in front of me, and blew the AFM off the hoses completly. There was blueish smoke coming from the intake, and I thought I blew the engine, then i noticed it was just the intake that blew. After this I was kinda scared shitless, so i haven't touched it since. Has this happened to anybody before? What does this mean? Since it started with something flamable, I guess that means that my injectors are going bad. The AFM looks to be fine, no damage done to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 my z was doing that when i first got it, and i never could get the fuel injection to work. i put on some su's and it runs fine. i'm not really happy with them though, so i'm putting together my sensors to run my megasquirt. i guess the answer to your question is that you clearly have spark, but no fuel. i don't like the lack of engine diagnostics on the stock fuel injection, it makes the system a PIA to trouble shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yeah, that happened to my exhaust, I had the timing WAY off, and I tried cranking the engine. The muffler exploded and came apart at the seams. Have you set the timing with a light? Have you gone through the FI bible? It has very basic tests that will reveal alot of electrical problems in the system. If it is not something that the test can reveal, it is probably a clog in the fuel line. I would definitely say that the stock fuel injection system is rather easy to diagnose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 when you say timing do you mean ignition timing, or crank/cam timing. I assume you mean ignition timing becuz of the light. I have not had a chance to time the ignition just becuz the fact that the car isn't running and doesn't idle. The reason i ask is that i didn't think that ignition timing wouldn't cause a backfire, i was freaked when it said timing-i was thinking i would have to time the cam. On a side note, i looked at the intake hose, and it was actually blown out, i was under the impression that it had just popped off the afm, but it blew up. So i put on a diffrent intake hose and performed the same WD-40 thing. Popped off the AFM again, so it wasn't a fluke, its happened 2 times now. Luckily this hose didn't actually blow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 use a propane torch that isnt lit next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 i'll try that later on this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Is your fuel pump running? Spraying flammable liquid around to keep it running sounds like you have a death wish, or at the very least you want to meet a plastic surgeon! Also driving around trying to spray "fuel" into the manifold should prove difficult don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 i hear the pump running. I just sprayed to see if it would idle, don't plan on running like that on the road or anything, just used it to diagnose the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 brake cleaner... ether... are inappropriate... It runs on gasoline... you should check for fuel(gasoline) and spark... not load it down with flammables... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 the point of the flammables was to see if the car would run and idle correctly-which it did. Ether is a substituded fuel as starting fluid, but i did not even use that. I am quite aware that my motor runs on gas. I wanted to see if there was sufficient spark to ignite the gas, which there was. Enough compression as to where it wouldn't bog down from running wrong in a few cylinders-which there was. I am NOT going to do this all the time, it was used as a test, and only a test-not another fuel that I plan on using instead of gasoline. As a result of this test and a few others, I have ruled out that it IS a gas issue-which means the test was a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Hi I was just concerned about your attempts to start your car, I had a friend who had a can of fuel and was tipping it in to the carb. To keep it going so he could work out why it wouldn't run, well the worst thing happened the car back fired which set fire to the can and his arm causing bad burns and scaring, he dropped the can which set fire to the car what a mess!!!! Just don't want to here that you ended up hurt. It sounds like you DO have a fuel problem, NOT ignition or compression issues Take care OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Any diagnostic test that kills the subject would be considered a FAILURE... brake cleaner... and ether... are NOT APPROPRIATE...... Your test only confirmed that you have spark and timing is acceptable... You should not have used ANYTHING other than gas... which is what your car is designed to run on... Ether is NOT an acceptable substitute... brake cleaner was never meant to be used in an engine at all... that is why they call it ""BRAKE CLEANER""... Contents vary from brand to brand... you cannot rely on what is in a can of brake cleaner.. or carby cleaner... Propane is just about your only reliable alternative... You cannot introduce liquid fuel into your intake because of your side draft fuel injection layout... Propane would allow you to meter in a small amount... Propane is the ingredient in a can of WD40 that your engine will operate on.. not the oil... PROPANE is the propellant for MANY MANY MANY MANY spray canned fluids.... But this is academic... there are numerous other ways to check your fuel system... blowing your intake to hell is not one of the accepted methods of diagnosing a relatively easy to find fault... Propane is a propellant for many things.... it is the propane you are after.. not the contents of the can.... engines will not run on WD40 alone.... try it out... get an unpressurized can of WD40.. pour it in your fuel tank and see if it runs... it will simply wet the plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Any diagnostic test that kills the subject would be considered a FAILURE... brake cleaner... and ether... are NOT APPROPRIATE...... I was niether killed nor harmed in any way in this test, and it did prove the FACT that I have a fuel problem-so I would consider it a SUCCESS. The only thing harmed could have been my underwear when I heard the hose pop, but thankfully they came out fine. I myself would consider ether safe as a test, just because it can be used in a metered amount just the same, as long as you don't keep spraying it directly into the intake while the engine is running-the reason I come to this conclusion is the fact that ether is used primarily in the automotive world as STARTER FLUID, it even says it on the can. Now would that mean that anybody on a cold morning trying to start there car with a little starter fluid because there car doesn't wanna start, is in danger of being harmed, and that there motor may blow up just because the engine was meant to run on gasoline, not ether? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Well, i've come to the conclusion that my injectors aren't bad, I really don't know how I figured that out though. What I did figure out however is that I am not getting any fuel to the engine bay. I popped off the hoses and put a long hose going to a soda bottle then cranked the engine-nothing came out. Did it again, still nothing. There is not gas getting to the injectors, so that is why the car isn't running. Now I have to track down the clog. BTW, yes, there is gas in the tank, not much, but there is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Well, i figured out, there is plenty of fuel pressure before the fuel pump, i popped off that line and gas poured out, quite a bit of it. I figured something out though that I never noticed. The fuel pump has three outlets, not just 2. I assume that one is where the gas comes into the pump, and another where it pushes the fuel out. What about the third? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Why don't you actually pull an injector but leave it connected to its fuel line and pigtail, cover the end of it with a thick plastic bag or anything else that will hold in gas, and crank the car for a few seconds. There should be a spoonful or two of gas in the bag after just a couple seconds. I've done this before to make sure that the injectors are being signaled to open by the ecu. Having fuel pressure alone doesn't mean that the injectors are opening. Also, you could check the wetness of the plugs which is a more common practice, but in your case they may already be wet for whatever reason and would not be informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 I was gonna do that. But the problem is that fuel isn't even making it to the fuel rail, so it would be a worthless test to conduct as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nienberg.11 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I must have missed that detail while reading the previous posts. Reading back over it you mention "plenty of fuel pressure before the pump." If your pump is in the stock location, then I think you are mistaking gravity for fuel pressure. I would check the functionality of the pump. Run a hot wire directly from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal on the pump and see it it's pumping. If it does, then maybe leave that wire connected while cranking the car. This won't hurt anything and will determine if the pump or its associated wiring are bad, or if there is a blockage (most likely in a filter) keeping the pump from getting gas to the rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 I replaced the fuel filter in the engine bay, not sure about the one near or in the tank. Now that you mention it, it was probly gravity that was putting the gas all over the driveway. I can hear the pump ingaging, and pumping, and i have ran a hot wire to it, the wiring is fine, it actually shorted and I had to redo that recently-It pumps when I crank the car and all, I hear it in the back. So I'm thinking there may be blockage in the lines sumwhere, but not quite sure where-I just know that its not before the pump. The gas lines have obviously been redone, and maybe they weren't put in the right location. I can tell that the lines are diffrent because whoever did it didn't put it through the gromets in the frame, they hung it under the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 how long (if at all) was this car sitting before you got it? mine sat for a few years at least with the driver's side window down (because the door handles were both broken, go figure) under a tarp, and the wiring and ecu looked like they came from the titanic. the reason i ask is because fuel will start to go bad after a certain amount of time, and any old gas left in the lines or tank will leave varnish deposits that could concievably be enough to prevent the fuel from getting to the front of the car. another possibility is that the pump has some internal failure such that it's electric motor is turning, but it's not actually pumping. if you hotwire it with fuel coming to it, and it doesn't spit out the other side, you've just isolated your problem to the pump itself i would think. try to diagnose your problem by testing only one variable at a time: you've proven gas will leak out of the tank, so that's good. it won't get to the front of the car, so see if it will come out of the pump, then see if it's getting from the pump to the fuel filter inlet, then from there to the rail and so on. you can test injectors with a 9 volt battery. just run jumper wires from the + and - of the battery to the terminals on the injector and listen for the click. polarity doesn't matter in this test i don't believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.