Phantom Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 How many times have you seen this one. LS1 won't crank over. Let me give you the symptoms. It originally began with the starter acting funny. It was almost like it wasn't fully engaging the flywheel. Sometimes I would just get a clicking sound. It started after a very heavy rainstorm where a lot of water blew in through the hood vents and drenched the engine. I've power washed the engine several times before with no problem so I don't know if this contributed or not. That's just when it first showed up. Anyway - thinking it was the solenoid acting up I had a new starter installed. Car started semi ok for a day but it still had similar symptoms. The last time it started it did it perfectly - then no more. My voltmeter indicates full battery voltage. When the car is running the votmeter indicates it's getting a full charge off the alternator. The headlights burn strongly and when I go to start they car they do NOT dim at all indicating no power going to the starter at all. When I turn the ignition switch I hear the fuel pump power up and come to pressure and then when I go to the 'start' position I get a 'click'. That's it - just a 'click'. It sounds like it's the starter relay under the passenger side dash engaging. I pulled my fusible link covers and my fusible links were in horrible shape. One - the black one - was burned clear through so I thought - OUTSTANDING! - I've found the problem. Ordered a complete set of links and link covers from MSA. They arrived last week and I got time to put them in this morning. I did that and hit the starter. Fuel pump whirred and came up to pressure, relay went 'click', but nothing else happened. Now what? To recap: Battery is good. Starter is new fusible links are new All the conversion fuses are good - checked them. When ignition key is turned to start the ignition relay goes 'click' but lights don't dim at all. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 I've been told that just because the starter relay goes 'click' that is not a guarantee that it is actually working so that might still be a potential problem area. Anyone that can either confirm or deny that rumor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Has your engine got a good Ground connection? this causes many starter problems!! try connecting a jumper cable from the (-)Neg of the battery directly to the engine block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 Thanks for the suggestion. Engine has huge grounding wire to battery and body so I don't think that is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Is the earth wire connected to Cast Iron or Aluminum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 It's an LS1, there is no cast iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Corrosion (Aluminum Oxide) between the cable and the engine is a great insulator, check the earth connection anyway!!! And sorry about the LS1 thing OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 OK - it's extremely easy to access. I'll undo the bolt, sand the two surfaces lightly and reassemble. Thanks for the persistence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 If you are still having problems, we can try to work it out for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Well, removed the grounding cable from the block last night, inspected all metal surfaces and saw no signs of any corrosion, sanded them both lightly for full clean-up anyway, and reasembled. Car still doesn't start. Tehn dove into the passenger side kick panel and eventually dug my way through to the starter relay and pulled it. I'm now looking for a replacement for it. If it's not the relay the car goes to a shop where it can be put up on a lift and the area around the starter accessed to check for wires with heat stress fromthe exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I went through the same thing with my '78. Don't think it has a starter relay, though. My car energizes the starter solenoid directly from the switch contacts, and I think the '77 is the same. I don't think the type engine has much to do with your problem... My problem was the ignition switch not making a good contact when in the start position. Like I said, same symptoms: Click sound from passenger foot well when in the Start position, no crank. Test this by pulling the plug off the back of the ignition switch and jumping the red/white wire to the black/yellow wire in the connector running back to the car. If the starter works when you do this, then the switch is bad. The contacts portion of the switch is easy and cheap to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 Thanks Rick. I do actually have a starter relay. That is what is making the 'click' sound and the number on it corresponds to a starter relay with Nissan - which I have ordered. When I get the new one installed - and reassemble all the electrical in the footwell I had to pull to get to it - I'll try jumpering the ignition switch if it still doesn't work. Thanks for the tip. One for you - since my car is a late production '77 then it is like the '78 - you have a starter relay buddy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I've been told that just because the starter relay goes 'click' that is not a guarantee that it is actually working so that might still be a potential problem area. Anyone that can either confirm or deny that rumor? This is entirely true cause, the current can go trough the coil side of the relay and attract the plunger but, if the plunger is spotted end pitted from the elctrical arc that goes trough it the current wo'nt go trough. A good way to check this is to put the coil side to 12v. and ground and then check for resistance on the actuated side of the relay, if you have anything more than a few milliohmes, it's shot. Try also checking voltage drop and continuity between you starer relay "actuated terminal" and "the ignition swith terminal on your starter" to see if it's not broken. You also xan try having someone knock on the starter with a small hammer while you'r cranking, the starter could be stuck inside or so dirty that the current can't jump the brush/inducer gap. If this do'st work, give me a mail, we'll check other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Thanks for the aditional information. I had the same symptoms 4 weeks ago so I had the starter replaced but the symptoms didn't go away. I dont' think it's the starter or solenoid. I have a new starter realy coming so I'll be able to eliminate that later this week once it arrives and I can reassemble things. If it still doesn't start I'll bedown to three things: 1) A faulty iginition switch and Rick's post above indicates how to correct that, 2) A burned wire down by the starter due to it's colse proximity to the exhaust manifold - that's happened before, or 3) A "I haven't a clue". The car is going in a shop for some work in a week anyway so if I don't have the problem fixed by then that will be the final 'fix'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I'll look in the FSM to see if there's a relay between the key switch and starter ...There may be a relay that energizes with the start position, but I still don't believe that in the 280Z it's in the switch-to-starter solenoid circuit. I'll verify this tomorrow (at work now). The sequence you should use to troubleshoot: 1. Jumper battery volts straight to the solenoid and see if it cranks. If yes,then the starter is good. (New starters have been known to be bad) 2.if there is a relay in that position, you can test it the same way as the switch: by jumpering the contacts and checking for starter operation. If yes, then the relay contacts are bad. (Noted that the relay is clicking, indicating a good circuit from the switch) 3. Finally, jumper the switch contacts to test the ignition switch and the whole starter circuit. Only 3 parts (2 maybe ) here, plus some wire. This sequence should help locate the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Phantom - The click you are hearing could be the ACC relay releasing as you turn the switch to start. ACC isn't powered when the switch is in the start position, so the relay opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 I've been told that just because the starter relay goes 'click' that is not a guarantee that it is actually working so that might still be a potential problem area. Anyone that can either confirm or deny that rumor? just wanted to comment on this.. I just replaced a starter that "clicked" sounded like it was hung up on the flywheel or something, turns out it was the starter solenoid. so that logic even though it clicks doesn't mean it works, the motor was fine, the solenoid wasn't but it still "clicked" -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 1. Jumper battery volts straight to the solenoid and see if it cranks. If yes,then the starter is good. (New starters have been known to be bad) Well, I figured this was done allready. 3. Finally, jumper the switch contacts to test the ignition switch and the whole starter circuit. Hummm, I would even do this firstas the switch is the easyest component to get to inside the car. + as SPEEDER said, you test the whole circuit in one step. Nice tip. By the way SPEEDER, THAT is a damn nice looking car you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Update, Car going to a shop. I've jumpered the ignition switch - nothing happened. I've checked all the components under the dash and everything appears OK. The new starter worked the first day I had it in but exhibited the same symptoms of the previous one so I have to believe there is another problem that cause the same symptoms in both starters. On the bright side - the car sure isn't using much of the $3.00/gallon gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I cannot begin to count the number of times I have seen this problem caused by dirty battery posts. "Looks clean" doesn't count. First order of business with any electrical problem is to ALWAYS take a wire brush to the posts. People have a hard time following this advice and always want to start replacing items. The click you hear is most likely the solenoid energizing as it should. This causes current to flow to the starter causing a huge voltage drop at any high resistance point in the lines. This lowered voltage prevents the solenoid from fully forcing the contact disk into the solenoid lugs causing a further voltage drop to starter motor. The starter is just not getting enough juice to torque over the motor. An absolutely foolproof way to check the solenoid is to jumper a screwdriver across the big lugs on the solenoid. If the starter doesn't turn over, the solenoid is not the problem. From there it is most likely the battery posts or the battery itself. Maybe hard to get a screwdriver into the solenoid with a V8 but this test works. With all the "high tech" people like to think are in their cars, this issue hasn't changed since the 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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