YZ Flare Install Questions,,, Part 2

[GTPVETTE]

Well I saw the rear YZ flares this evening,,, nice parts. Here is the plan,,,, attach flares with structural adhesive then blend in. The problem,,,, there is no real edge or flange anywhere on the top of the flare to allow bonding,,, it’s just thin fiberglass almost perpendicular to the rear quarter panel. We came up with two possibilities tonight,,, the first glass a flange onto the flare where needed to bond with (BlueOval had a good write up on this process with hood scoops) or weld a flange on the rear quarter to bond to. Anyone have thoughts on our ideas or experience with these flares????

 

Many Thanks!

Fred

[speeder]

I had the same concerns after first looking at my YZ rear quarters.

 

I didn't alter either mating surface. I roughed up the metal underneath with 80-grit sanding discs, then trimmed the quarters fo fit and temporarily attached them with long sheet metal screws. When I was satisfied with the fit, I removed the quarters and applied a really thick, messy bead of Duraglass all the way around the insides of the panels, and then quickly installed the quarters with the sheet metal screws. I had 2 friends with me to mix up the big globs of Duraglass, apply it, and then run in the screws with cordless drills before the duraglass set. Smoothing off the excess Duraglass squeezed out of the seams with a sureform grate before it's completely hard saves you some work later - this stuff is slow sanding when cured.

 

This mounting technique seems to be very secure.

 

As a side note, I had to fabricate triangular extensions for where the YZ quarters didn't extend far enough to meet the body in the bottom area behind the wheels, and built inner fender liners of fiberglass.

 

See my gallery for the YZ in progress.

[olie05]

there is a 2 part adhesive that you put through a special nozzle that mixes the two parts while you push on the trigger of the gun.

 

A buddy of mine used it to mold on his 944 gt flares, and this stuff is strong.

 

I wish i could remember the name of it!!!

 

all I remember is that the mixing nozzle snaked the 2 parts around and by the time the epoxy reached the tip, both parts were fully mixed.

[Kennysgreen280zt]

there is a 2 part adhesive that you put through a special nozzle that mixes the two parts while you push on the trigger of the gun.

 

A buddy of mine used it to mold on his 944 gt flares' date=' and this stuff is strong.

 

I wish i could remember the name of it!!!

 

all I remember is that the mixing nozzle snaked the 2 parts around and by the time the epoxy reached the tip, both parts were fully mixed.[/quote']

 

Ive used the same stuff, its specifically for mating steel to fibreglass correct? We had a bubbling issue when we used it on a miata bumper which was plastic. I seriously cant remember the name either..... The nozzle was like 6" long right?

[GTPVETTE]

Thanks Rick,,

First you car looks fantastic,,, although I’m confused about your rear flares. The picture in your signature doesn’t look like the YZ’s,, yet a saw another post of yours where the tilt front end and YZ’s were just installed.

Also,, how did you finish off the outside of those rear flares? Was it fiberglass then filler??

Olie05 – Are you thinking Duramix????

Thanks!

[blueovalz]

The welding part is a unique idea, and it does avoid the need for any glasswork. The main advantage I saw for the creation of the fiberglass flange was to allow the part to be attached and removed with screws/bolts/rivets instead of bonding (I wanted to be able to repair/replace the part without destroying the bond).

[Dan Juday]

I did the same as Rick with the exception that I used thin aluminum sheet rather than fiberglass for the wheelhouse. No problems.

 

Note: Rick's sig needs updating.

[SSflyer]

The goop in the tubes is called Automix. You'll need to either do the whole glue job at one time, or buy a bunch of extra nozzles. The autopaint store where I bought mine also had a loaner gun/applicator they let me use free. You do need to use the Automix gun because both sides of the glue tubes need to be pressed together in order to mix correctly.

[speeder]

Rick's sig needs updating.

Yeah it does. I need to get off my lazy butt & do it. The body in the sig is no more.

 

The YZ rears were pretty smooth as received - they did require a little filler to take out slight ripples.

[olie05]

To answer the questions from posts #4 and #5, I think it was duramix. I will probably be using this stuff this weekend, and when I do i'll get the name of it. Maybe I'll snap some pics of it in action too.

 

the nozzle was in fact about 6" long, and it was replaceable.

[Sparks280zt]

Any pointers on doing it this way? I have to cut all mine out like this picture because of some sketch bodywork that was done before.

 

[Dan Juday]

Any pointers on doing it this way? I have to cut all mine out like this picture because of some sketch bodywork that was done before.

 

 

That's NOT the way to do it. You'll need to weld the fenders back on and weld them to the newly enlarged wheelhouse. The stock fenders are a structural member of unibody. Bonding fiberglass fenders to an open quarter like that will make a very weak car and the fenders will crack in short order from the stress put on them.

[Sparks280zt]

I sent an email to John Washington showing him that same picture and he said that would be ok? That is not my car, I have not cut on mine yet.

[John Washington]

Thanks for emailing me offline to point me to this discussion, Matt.

 

First and foremost, Dan is right and I apologize for answering your question in the contrary without thinking about it first. Dan has probably forgotten more about the subject than I will ever hope to know!

 

I have had a lot of customers install over completely cutout quarter panels, BUT they've almost all been on racecars, attached with Dzus panels, and with other structure (roll cage, bracing, etc.) installed to compensate for the missing sheet metal. Thus, like the answers you get from Microsoft tech support, my answer was technically correct in spite of being completely unhelpful. Sorry about that.

 

It would, of course, be possible to do it sort-of-racecar-style, but you'd need to put in all that extra bracing. Probably easier to weld a stock quarter back over the area, or patch whatever you were planning to cut away.

 

On a side note, the Duramix or Automix (or whatever it's called) products and dispenser are nice. However, the material is usually epoxy so is VERY expensive per unit volume. It takes a lot of volume to bond on quarter panels. Personally, I like to spend about the same money and buy a GALLON of the fiberglass reinforced body filler product (Duraglass, Everglass, or whatever, just short strands) and have more than enough.

 

Spread it liberally, scrape off and discard what oozes out, and the little bit of waste material you end up with is money well wasted, if you know what I mean.

[Sparks280zt]

Thanks for the clear up John, looking forward to getting those Subtles.

[blueovalz]

Thanks Ernie. RacerX probably has more bodywork experience that the entire membership put together. His comments and suggestions are of great value here.

[DavyZ]

I have seen some of the cars (concours d'elegance-type) come out of the shop he used to work with. Oh yeah, a $200,000 Chevelle. Looked great to me, but Ernie knew every flaw (not his paint job). No wonder no one wants him to be a judge at a car show j/k

 

Davy

[John Washington]

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

I'm sure there are much better ways to stick stuff together than what I've done/recommended in the past. That's one reason I usually preference my comments with, "I'm not an expert..."

 

However, I might point out the following:

 

I've seen a lot of bonding, both good and bad. Most of the bad stuff has to do with too little adhesive and poor pre-bond prepping.

 

The epoxies and similar products seem to work really well with surfaces that have reasonably good registration. With fiberglass fenders and the like, the bonding areas--in most cases--don't have the benefit of high tolerance registration.

 

Remember, total bond strenth is unit bond strength (measured in force per unit area, e.g., pounds per square inch...this is a function of the prep and qualities of the adhesive) multiplied by the total bond area.

 

My favorite example: I was doing some prototyping work and stuck a door skin over a door using Bondo. I got the skin clocked a degree or two relative to the door, and didn't realize it before the Bondo cured. I thought, "No problem, I'll just pry it off." Well, I wrecked the door AND the skin trying to get it off. And that's just with BONDO as an adhesive.

 

I'd be interested to hear any input on the above subjects, since "I'm not an expert!":)

[Guest Ron]

John, John, John, you're doing it again with the engineer speak. I told you about that. Don't make me come over there.

How are ya John, my z went in the shop for more "expert" work (I don't mind practicing on someone elses car, but not mine). When I get it back I'll post more photos. I found some really well made fender vents localy for the top of the front fenders. Take care bud.

[GTPVETTE]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on how to make this happen. Speaking of which,,,, the old flares came off today. These were done about 15 years ago and have really held up well,,, in fact the only reason the owner wants to change them is due to tire size.

 

We started with the passenger side,,, turns out the edges were glued down with epoxy and bondo to fill the seam,,,, who would of thunk. The passenger side had a lot of adhesive and was stuck pretty good but surprisingly the drivers didn't. It looks as if mabe an inch of adhesive held the flare inplace all of this time. Once I got an edge lifted with a screwdriver the rest came pretty easy.

 

In test fitting the new flare the fit looks OK,, but it does seem a tad short. If we line up the top of the flare on the top of the quarter panel,, it doesn't really fit the bottom quite right so some work will need to be done there.

 

We've also come to the conclusion that some type on flange needs to be attached to the top of the quarter panel so we can bond it on. The fronts and rears look like they'll attach OK with enough epoxy. The bottoms will need some work.

 

One question if I might,,,, how much of a bonding area should we be looking for? I'm thinking an inch to an inch and a half,,, but would like to here from you guys.

 

Thanks again!

Fred