JSM Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I've heard that the 75 intake manifold is better if you want to get into the turbo side. Is this because of porting or because it just looks cleaner? Can the Throttle body and associated electronics w/ the AFM be interchange from 75 to 83? Looking at changing from SU to FI, then turbo, but want to start w/ baby steps and limited budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 the 75 intake just looks cleaner without the useless EGR and the lack of webbing makes it easier to get off and on especially with a turbo car, the TB's are rpetty much interchangable, some had an off boost valve on the bottom but it will run without, your best bet is to run aftermarket such as Megasquirt or keep with one setup complete from one donor, and I believe there are 2 different AFM's for the N/A's if you plan to go turbo I'd go with megasquirt as you can still run it with the turbo and you don't need the afm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 I think I'm leaning more towards SDS than MS. I just seems easier. Unless of course there are links out there for completed units? I not in any kind of mood to solder. I was planning on FI first then turbo later. If I run MS or SDS I can eliminate the AFM all together just for the FI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twentyfourouncer Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Assembled megasquirts are available here: http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-programmable-system-pcb30-assembled-unit-p-56.html as well as other places. With either MS or SDS you can indeed eliminate the afm, they are MAP based systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 yeah tons of completed MS for sale look on ebay as well, either way MS or SDS if your gonna be upgrading to turbo later go with the stand alone now or stay with the carbs till you go to the turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted August 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted August 11, 2006 Most of you are already used to my “excess” babbling… so for those of you not accustomed to it, I do apologize … From a true performance stand point, the OE EFI intakes are a bit weak. The runners have small diameter runners which are “the” restriction to making decent power, boosted or N/A. Sure they can be made to “look pretty” and will flow fine for stock to mild street performance, but that is about it. FWIW, some of the Turbo intakes I have personally measured do have slightly larger ID runners than the N/A intakes but don’t get all excited as that slightly larger ID is just that, SLIGHT! Not large enough to actually FEEL the difference, seat of the pants. If you are wanting maximum effort from your EFI L-series, look into a custom intake. Spork makes a nice unit, 1 fast Z also makes a high flowing ITB set up, or custom fab your own. One idea would be to modify an SU intake set up for EFI utilizing dual throttle valves and port match those manifolds and you’d be far better off from a performance stand point than the OE EFI intake manifold. I have cleaned up more than few of these OE L-series EFI intakes, and sure they look pretty, but for all out performance, they are not our first or even our second choice… This OE ’75 N-42 intake is on my personal L-28 powered 240-Z race car currently. I machined it for aftermarket C-4 Corvette 21 lb/hr O-ring injectors and set it up with a 60mm Nissan Throttle body and cable actuation. This a Flat top L-28 with a custom Rusch Motorsports Maxima N-47 w/L-28 intake valves, 5 angle valve geometry, a mild 487” lift cam. The WOT Air Fuel Ratio is dialed in dead nuts with 100-LL Av-Gas and a very aggressive ignition advance curve dialed into the DIS ign set up and it is noticeably lacking in top end torque compared to the triple carb set up that this EFI system replaced. Next season, we will be installing the IR intake manifold pictured converted to accept O-ring injectors… ITB Intake to be converted to EFI and installed next season… My $.02 on “Mega Squirt” vs “SDS” EMS. MEGA SQUIRT! Mega squirt is actually quite powerful, versatile, and chocked full of features at an INCREDIBLE price, especially when you consider its features. But this very inexpensive monetary price does come at another cost… The end user/purchaser still has to deal with interpreting MS speak, then configuring the MS software, (Megatune is the way to go, but it can also be very intimidating for a person who is not very computer savvy). For MS to function, all the “i”s must be dotted and all the “t”s crossed so that it will function, and when those conditions are met, it functions very well. I currently just went through this myself with Mega Squirt on my L-28 powered F-prepared Solo-II Z. I like to consider myself at least slightly above average in regards to getting around a PC and manipulating files etc within Windows, but with all the options I wanted to utilize from my MS project, it was a bit daunting for me to say the least. Ron Tyler can attest to my frustration of the “unknown” in regards to MS during the set up process. Thank goodness that I purchased a preassemble MS from a reputable builder, RS Autosport. My Z car MS project is currently up and running with distributor-less ign controlled by Mega Squirt and I am VERY satisfied with it. What a fun toy the MS system is. (details of this conversions can be read/seen here… http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=15436 SDS! Now, SDS on the other hand requires a bit more cash outlay from the get go, but it is also is much simpler in design and control as there is no software language to endure, i.e. no Lap top to interface with, just a hand held controller. When I say “SDS is simpler”, I mean that from every aspect of the term. SDS is a GREAT “Race car”, “Boat”, or “Air Craft” EMS. For a street car, SDS is only satisfactory, compared to all the available systems today, the SDS is lacking in features regarding transitional performance, etc. It lends itself to home built air craft, boats, Drag/Bonneville race cars perfectly with its dependability and simplicity. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE SDS. I have swapped numerous E-mails with Ross Farnham, (owner of SDS), covering DIS for V-8 systems back in the late ‘90’s, (and BTW, Ross is great). Back then, SDS was at the top of their game, but the EMS market has evolved by leaps and bounds since then and SDS hasn’t really stayed with this growth curve, and it is my opinion that unless SDS makes some drastic changes to their systems in the near future, they could end up becoming to the EMS world what DOS is to PC’s, obsolete and only for the die hard boat and home built air craft guys. I would really hate to see that happen. Another rapidly growing EMS system is the WOLF 3d system. They are priced comparable to SDS but in its current production run, it has the control and features of MOTEC and top of the line AEM systems. When it comes to stand alone EMS, the current irritation of Wolf 3d has the most bang for the buck, of course that is just my opinion. Ron Tyler is currently setting up two separate Datsun L-28 powered Z cars with COP, (6 individual GM LS-x coils) utilizing WOLF 3d. For more info on the powerful yet affordable current production Wolf 3d EMS, you can contact Ron directly at ron@primeems.com One of Ron’s COP set ups… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted August 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted August 11, 2006 Braap, Thanks for the plug. JSM, I pretty well agree with Braap. To say the same thing in a different way... Its been my experience that SDS will get a modestly modified Z up and running REALLY well in a short period of time with minimal headaches (if any at all). On the other hand, MS will take you 4 times longer, at times leave you scratching your head, and won't run appreciably better. BUT, MS has TON'S of room to grow. Radical cams, COPS, WBO2, ITB's, etc, etc, combined with datalogging and its low entry fee, is very attractive. Whats my point? I think you should choose one based on what you're going to do with your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 If you are wanting maximum effort from your EFI L-series' date=' look into a custom intake. Spork makes a nice unit, 1 fast Z also makes a high flowing ITB set up, or custom fab your own. One idea would be to modify an SU intake set up for EFI utilizing dual throttle valves and port match those manifolds and you’d be far better off from a performance stand point than the OE EFI intake manifold. [/quote'] BRAAP, Thanks for your insight. I did some more reading the past couple days and decided to pass on the SDS unit. I'm fairly computer savy so that shouldn't be an issue and thanks for the link on the built MS units. They offer quite a bit of accessories it appears as well. All said and done, what am I realistically looking at spending? I want to turbo in the future, but want to start out slow. I need basically everything from injectors, TB, sensors, intake, fuel pump, feul rail, ECU, WH, Coil Packs, etc. Is the relay pack MS or home built? I'm confussed about the crank sensor mount. Do you have to fab your own? Anyone sell one or a car out there that you can steel one from? In the post you mentioned, the one shown on the car was very nice. What is EDIS? You used a 36-1 Escort wheel? Does RS sell the sensor/mount? what do they suggest. Is there a FI for Dumies post somewhere or FI 101? I was looking into the eletromotive tec3. There is a shop here in lakeland, fl. 2500.00 for the unit 800.00 to install, everything. 1600 to dyno at its best and tune for daily drivabilty. OUCH! You have links to the above companies that sell these intakes? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Not to sidetrack the discussion, but I just wanted to say to Paul that the BRAAP-mobile is everything I thought it would be, very cool car. As for which management system, I chose the megasquirt because a good friend of mine is using one on his 95 SC2 saturn to the tune of 330whp, so I've got access to some proven (to me anyway) tuning prowess for no extra charge. It's compact, and full of features, and very inexpensive. I had him build it for me since I've never soldered anything before, and didn't want to learn on a circuit board. I'll probably be doing the install this week sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.INSANE Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 If you dont want to deal with the stock Intake Manifold Lone Wolf Performance Sells one http://www.lonewolfperformance.com/products/index.html Ive never had one myself but if someone here has feel free to chime in about how it performs Braap: Where did the exhaust end cap go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 I kind of like this setup. I wonder what this would cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Where's the plenum for that turbo? That looks like the www.twminduction.com setup to replace the tripple webers with fuel injection throttle bodies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Does this equate to a good unit to turbo? That is the Intake? I kind of like this setup. I wonder what this would cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I'm sure that would work great with a turbo-after it's finished. I see in the picture's address that came from the projects section of www.speedshopthagard.com, so it's probably a work in progress photo. Looks like really high quality stuff. The intake in that picture is the 6 holes in the middle there. It's eventually going to get an enclosure to seal them up so that it will hold boost. I've heard tons of good stuff about that shop, I guess for pricing you could just go to the website and see what they are charging...What I'm curious about: is that a second fuel rail up by the valve cover? That motor looks so serious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 It reminds me of the TWM induction kit, which is about $2700. The second fuel rail seems to be for laughing gas. Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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