Guest Nourdmrolnmt1 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 first time posting here, thinking of buying a Z, and building it with an SBC with my father... looking at 350 blocks, if i get a crate motor, quite possibly the ZZ4 GMP motor, but im not sure if that becomes to much power for the vehicle? i know i want to make it a 5 spd, with some power, probably going black paint, dark tint, dark wheels, etc. just need to figure out what all i can do to it. however, if i were to get just a block, what cams, lifters, etc would you guys suggest? i want about 380-400 hp, and trq, lower RPM's but with the ability to get to higher RPM as well, im not well versed on the building of an engine, my father has more knowledge... also, will an engine of this magnitude require more chasis bracing? i would like to be able to make it handle for track use, and dd able, which makes it for a fun build... however, $$ is a limiter, its not like $6k to do it, but it isnt $50k (or else id throw a warhawk block in it) engine $ limit is about 3-5k for a complete running engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 A project like this requires a great deal of research... there are several members here that can do the conversion for you if you do not have the skills... Use the forum search function and peruse the files.... this has been in discussion for decades... all kinds of things are possible... Jags That Run (JTR) has a manual available to guide you in the conversion process.. this is usually THE FIRST STEP.... Keep in mind that early Datsuns are rife with rust... as with any classic car these issues must be dealt with in ADDITION to the engine conversion process... chassis stiffening depends on what you plan to do with the car.... IMHO the S-30 cars are best suited to Road Racing.... So an SCCA 4-point roll bar and subframe connectors are a good idea for a track days/street car. People have installed JY motors for less than $1k... others like me are going to end up $20-30k involved... ZZ4 is a good choice for a first motor.... and if falls right in the middle of your range... keep in mind that on a road race track... horsepower has surprisingly little to do with improving your lap times... the S-30 cars need a lot of help in the suspension tuning department.. the only thing adjustable on a stock 240Z is front toe angle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nourdmrolnmt1 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 i know about JTR, and will purchase that first before i do anything, im looking to figure out like total cost, i want to try and keep it around 15-20k total spent, and am looking at around 2-4k for the car itself. and then the 4k for the engine (ZZ4 from Summit, i live close to their original location) then i need to find a tranny for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 not decided what you are going to do with the car... or I would have assumed it would have been stated by now... You gotta figure.... you can spend endless money on any one aspect of a car... for show cars its all about fit and finish.. a complete stock restoration could be as high as $15K... for a custom show car look... $$$ could be higher and have absolutely nothing to do with performance... For performance... A dragster drivetrain could easily cost $20k and the car could still look like it was dredged out of a lake.... the Pink's Z comes to mind.... A Road track car could have $40 in a total performance package and still look like crap... no interior, no AC, 2 way radio only, with a rattle bomb paint job... So... what do you want???.... and don't wast your time on a street "Tuner" 240Z... it will never fit in with the Honda crowd... besides K/Wal-mart bling is cheap and easy to apply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I would recommend a complete 5.7 liter LS1 with 6 speed trans. You can pick up a complete, low mile setup for 5000.00 ready to drop in (from fan to tail shaft, complete with ac, belts, puylleys, efi, clutch, ect, ect, ect) Then after you get it installed, worry about making more hp. LS1's respond very nicely to better cylinder heads and longer duration cams. 400 to 500hp is easy to get. Plus the LS1's are light weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 An LSX engine may be a good choice for your build, but you need to take into account that you cannot install it using JTR mounts. You will need to be able to make your own or use the LSX specific mounts from John's Cars. You may overshoot your 15K-20k budget pretty quickly if that includes everything. You should upgrade your brakes, suspension, and rear end for starters. Then you've got your interior, paint and bodywork, wheels and tires; not to mention all the little things you didn't think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nourdmrolnmt1 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 not decided what you are going to do with the car... or I would have assumed it would have been stated by now... You gotta figure.... you can spend endless money on any one aspect of a car... for show cars its all about fit and finish.. a complete stock restoration could be as high as $15K... for a custom show car look... $$$ could be higher and have absolutely nothing to do with performance... For performance... A dragster drivetrain could easily cost $20k and the car could still look like it was dredged out of a lake.... the Pink's Z comes to mind.... A Road track car could have $40 in a total performance package and still look like crap... no interior' date=' no AC, 2 way radio only, with a rattle bomb paint job... So... what do you want???.... and don't wast your time on a street "Tuner" 240Z... it will never fit in with the Honda crowd... besides K/Wal-mart bling is cheap and easy to apply...[/quote'] im not a tuner, never will be, im muscle to the heart, had an uncle (rip) who built the dragster that won the 196X winter nationals (Strip Tease) and my dad has always wanted a classic car, but a nice GTO is to expensive, a Z looks nice, and dropping a SBC would be great, and good bonding (im 20, and me and my father dont do much together anymore and i respect him a lot) im looking at the ZZ350 block right now, shortblock, gotta look at camshafts, pistons, etc, its gunna be NA (i dont want FI...yet) looking to get around 10.5:1 or so compression, pump gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Guys have used their specific skills to create their own car from scratch.. this requires owning a shop... or having the freedom at someone else's shop to accomplish the labor for free.... and knowing how to subcontract others to do specific things you cannot... Most guys are going to spend 3-6k for a donor 1984-1992 Camaro... fix up the existing engine and tranny... then junk the body... you don't need a crate engine to do this... in fact you can sometimes auction off the Camaro interior bits for some extra cash.. . The Donor method is the best, inexpensive way to deal with the swap... it has most of the little bits you will need to make it work in the S-30 Z car... and the JTR kit is built around this method... Other than that... you don't need a lot of horsepower to make the little S-30 Z cars go fast around a track... it needs to be light and well set up... the V-8 conversion can improve the center of gravity and the balance of the chassis... Laps times are really improved by adding sticky tires and keeping them applied to the ground... A chevy SB engine IS heavier than the Datsun motor... but it depends on what motor you a talking about... Aluminum components can greatly reduce the weight a of Chevy 350 engine... as well as getting rid of AC, AIR pump, and emissions harware on Datsun OR Chevy engines... headers weigh considerably less than stock cast iron manifolds.. even if they make no other discernable improvements... Late model radiators weigh much less than the overheated bronze statue they call a Datsun radiator... If you start with a bone stock 280Z and swap the original powertrain to a carburated lightweight SB350 with no AC and no emissions it will definitely be lighter when you are done... considerably lighter and better balanced... Brakes are a consideration.. but the factory brake system works well if you rebuild it... DO NOT for any reason discount the rear drums as not functional.... You will see a considerable improvement by switching the front brakes to a heavier vented disk and Toyota calipers... ducting cold air to the brakes will even get you through occasional track events.... But... if you are going to change everything you might as well go with the Willwoods or similar kits offered by Arizona Z car, Modern Motorsports, and others... Honestly... the full race kit is not much more expensive and certainly no more trouble to install than the rear disk swaps from other car models.... Have you ever inquired about painting these old cars.... rust is ALWAYS and issue.. even a zero rust car has a rust issue SOMEWHERE... it is inevitable... people with some experience can tell you what to look for and how to fix it... body shops DO NOT do a very good job at tackling rust issues... you pay a little or a lot.. you never know the outcome until it starts to blister in 2 or 3 years... $$$ for paint... priceless... Suspension needs a little help on the S-30 chassis... there is simply no adjustment... lowering the car can cause problems that are not easily fixed... maximizing the car for street use while making it track capable..occasionally... will cost you around $1k if you can do most of the labor yourself... a track star suspension/chassis can run anywhere from $3-10K... or more.... so there ya go... the engine is only a tiny consideration in the scope of the project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 No such thing as too much power. Also I shipped an L28 the other day, longblock only weighed 315lbs on a digital scale. So add turbo, manifolds, intake, etc. there isn't much difference from a SBC, not enough to piddle about anyway. Go for cubes, 406 or better, you won't have any regrets then, pleanty of power and a big grin on your face. Grumpyvette builds engines, even knows a thing or two about them as well, might PM him for a price on a complete setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 http://airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php[/url] Engine Specs: 383 CID 9.6 : 1 CR ...boost to 10.5:1 Edelbrock RPM Air Gap Intake Comp 236/242 Hydrolic Roller Cam swap to the crane 114681 solid flat tappet cam/lifters Holley 750 Carb 1.75 Long Tube Headers MSD Ignition 38° advance with original 195's 37° advance with Eliminator 195's Penzoil 15w-40 93 octane Amoco pump fuel http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/intake.htm http://www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/runnerarea.htm http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/fluids/page7/PipeLength/pipe.html to cut cost significantly, swap to a 10.5:1 cpr and a crane 114681 flat tappet cam http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=114681&lvl=2&prt=5 and use 1.6 roller rockers, CHECK ALL CLEARANCES TWICE...MAKE THAT FOUR TIMES ..CAREFULLY youll want a 3.73:1-4.11:1 rear gear and a MANUAL trans or a 3000rpm stall converter....yeah your correct if your thinking the engine will lope and lack some power under about 2500rpm, but hold on tight after that rpm till well in excess of 6000rpm if you want slightly more lope and are willing to accept a roughter idle and want more low rpm torque, you can have almost the same cam on a tighter LCA http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=110921&lvl=2&prt=5 either cam choice will make close too/more than 500 hp easily, depending on how the engines built Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nourdmrolnmt1 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 [url=http://airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php ]http://airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php[/url][/url] Engine Specs: 383 CID 9.6 : 1 CR ...boost to 10.5:1 Edelbrock RPM Air Gap Intake Comp 236/242 Hydrolic Roller Cam swap to the crane 114681 solid flat tappet cam/lifters Holley 750 Carb 1.75 Long Tube Headers MSD Ignition 38° advance with original 195's 37° advance with Eliminator 195's Penzoil 15w-40 93 octane Amoco pump fuel http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/intake.htm http://www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/runnerarea.htm http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/fluids/page7/PipeLength/pipe.html to cut cost significantly' date=' swap to a 10.5:1 cpr and a crane 114681 flat tappet cam http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=114681&lvl=2&prt=5 and use 1.6 roller rockers, CHECK ALL CLEARANCES TWICE...MAKE THAT FOUR TIMES ..CAREFULLY youll want a 3.73:1-4.11:1 rear gear and a MANUAL trans or a 3000rpm stall converter....yeah your correct if your thinking the engine will lope and lack some power under about 2500rpm, but hold on tight after that rpm till well in excess of 6000rpm[/b'] if you want slightly more lope and are willing to accept a roughter idle and want more low rpm torque, you can have almost the same cam on a tighter LCA http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=110921&lvl=2&prt=5 either cam choice will make close too/more than 500 hp easily, depending on how the engines built nice post, im trying to figure if i want to build a 383, or a 350 if we decide to do the project.... i didnt click on links to figure out $$ but it looks damn powerful, i would prolly drop in that other cam for lower RPM power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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