Guest Anonymous Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I have the 8 point S&W kit. I'm putting it in a 280 (should fit about the same as a 240, right?) My car is at the shop awaiting its installation. I have had a few last minute worries. First: Should I use the lap belt mounting 'pockets' to mount the base of the main hoop? If I do will that affect its street legality? (having no stock seat belts -- but having a harness) Otherwise the installer wants to bend the main hoop and mount it to the small shelf between the front of the wheel wells. Second: How high to mount the horizontal bar in the main hoop? Just above shoulder height for the harness right? Third: The installer wants to run the rear tubes along the side of the strut towers and weld them to the strut towers midway down the tubes. Is this wise? Is there a better option for adding strength here? Fourth: Has anyone else decided to remove their arm rests to get clearance for the front tubes? I just can't see them fitting otherwise. Fifth: There is no fifth.. aren't you glad? Any responses you can muster would be appreciated.. especially since they are starting work this weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 I bought the Art Morrison 8pt bar kit, I think it is the same as the S&W. The question I have is, if you mount the hoop on the shelf it is along side of the seat back. In my car (71z) the cross bar would then go through the seat. I think it is ok to mount the upper braces to the shock towers but I would mount them to the top of the main hoop to keep it from bending foward or back at the time of needing it. The way I read the nhra rule book they want the upper loop between 3 and 5 inches above your helmeted head, not in front of it and no more than 6 inches behind it. In a Z car yea right. All I can figure is to mount it to the fender well, then the cross brace would be behind the seat and not contact the seat back. I havent thought about the side bars yet. I kind of thought I would need the hoop in first. So far the hoop is "sitting" in the car and the straight pieces just laying on the floor beside the car. If anyone could shed some light on this it would be a great help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by dewzenol: First: Should I use the lap belt mounting 'pockets' to mount the base of the main hoop? If I do will that affect its street legality? (having no stock seat belts -- but having a harness) Otherwise the installer wants to bend the main hoop and mount it to the small shelf between the front of the wheel wells. I've heard that racing harnesses are illegal for street use. But even still, you could use a non-retractor universal seatbelt mounted elsewhere. I decided to mount the hoop on the short raised area of the floor just in front of the tool box area, between the inner wheel houses also. The installer sectioned, reinforced (internally) and welded back together the hoop in the center of the bar at the roof area. The hoop is about 3/4" in front of the header that the plastic trim goes around that's just forward of the hatch hinge area. It's also about 3/4" from the roof sheetmetal. quote Second: How high to mount the horizontal bar in the main hoop? Just above shoulder height for the harness right? I had mine mounted shoulder height, where the holes in the Corbeau A4 seats were in the seat back. The main hoop is mounted at an angle backwards bottom to top, and almost touches the package shelf leading corner at the top. With the seat almost all the way back (1/2" to go), the seat belt horizontal bar (which is straight across) is about 1/2" from the back of the seat with it in a comfortable position and angle. I have long legs (on a 6'2" frame) and this is just at the limit of comfort for me. quote: Third: The installer wants to run the rear tubes along the side of the strut towers and weld them to the strut towers midway down the tubes. Is this wise? Is there a better option for adding strength here? Sounds good. I had the installer just run short tubes from the top of the hoop to the forward top corner of the strut tower, and stopped there. I left the door bars out for seating comfort (didn't want that bar right next to my ribs) and for ingress/egress utility. Definitely a compromise I'm still not very comfortable with! HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 At least I can't complain about the seatbelt issue! In CA all you have to have is a seatbelt of some kind (your mother's arm don't count) and you're ok. Why should the government bother restricting you to something other than a racing harness??? In other words, a racing harness does a better job than a stock seat belt--so why should they care if you upgrade? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Thanks, guys! I've decided to keep the main hoop on that shelf in front of the storage boxes. I've also decided to keep the side bars as close to the door coverings as possible. I will remove the arm rests for clearance. In the FUTURE, I plan on getting a clevis type removable side bar so I can have the arm rest except when I really need the side bar in. So I will have some place to stick my arm on road trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 I think the issue with racing belts is that they aren't tested like the auto manufacturers do. Also, I've heard that some racing belts are designed to give a bit in an accident, to lessen the impact on the body during a crash. The problem is that a crash only sometimes involves one impact onto the belts - sometimes you hit something else and the belts again. If the racing belt has stretched, it won't protect you well, if at all during the second impact and may let you get loose in the car. OG Racing has a picture on their wall with a helmet mark in the windshield to show customers why they won't sell a certain brand of belts for this reason. Of course, I forgot the name. As far as putting the hoop on that shelf, not that it's too far away from the side of the car (the vertical parts) to be NHRA compliant that way. I can't remember the dimension required, but I remember that it's less than you can get with the hoop mounted up on that shelf. Heck, I think the tracks I go to will be happy I have a bar at all, and won't worry about these little rule infractions. Just wanted to bring that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 One thing that bit me when the cage was first put in my car - main hoop! The installer put it just UNDER the trim where the dome light is. I couldn't see out the back and my head was actually as high if not higher than the bar I'm 6 foot 2 BTW. So, I took it back, explained the problem, it was replaced free of charge I don't recall where the main hoop mounts but I think it was on th elittle shelf. Bars going back hit the towers and were reinforced - the rear area is a crush zone. Side bars touchdown up front where the front hoop also touches down - reinforced. I still have my armrests, they touch but it fits with no cutting (shrug). I'll take pics if you'd like to see anything special. Crossbar in back is a little below shoulder height and should be higher. Lastly, you're supposed to have DOT stuff on your car. Things like braided brake hose that hasn't passed the "whip test" or brake lights that don't have DOT markings are supposed to fail. Seat belts aren't tested like OME stuff is and even though it might be better it's not DOT. I'll be using them anyway Look at it this way - an OEM seatbelt is put in the same for every car an dit's been tested. A race belt could be done any weirdo way and there's no consistant way yo test them. It's a CYA move to help protect the public is all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Yes pictures would be great of where the main hoop and support bars are. Does anybody have any input on cutting the main hoop at an angle and mounting it to the rear fender well? The hoop is already made and goes out to the inside wall of the car. The inner fender well seems strong, curved in three dimensions. If I put the 6x6 mounting pad and weld the main hoop to it with a brace to the shelf would it be safe? I don't plan on having to use the roll bar as anything other frame brace but as everybody knows stuff happens. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Another issue with racing harnesses, and OG Racing will confirm this.... they aren't UV Friendly and actually have a problem failiong over time, which explains the tag on the harness... OG informed Chris CLoud and I that they have boxes of harnesses that they can't sell because the tags expired, but the belts were kept in boxes in their warehouses...Doesn't matter, the tags are dated for a reason! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 seatbelts have a 5 yr useful life- once it hits 5 years NG for racing use. hence the reason to have FRESH belts. AFAIK ALL belts stretch.. they arent made to stretch its just a fact that they do.. in nascar belts sretch up to 3" in a impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Hmm, kinda makes me wonder, what about OEM belts or shoulder harnesses? Are they UV tolerent? I'd hate to think I was all snug and then take a bounce off the windshield (Lord knows I don't need any help being ugly... ). Good topic, never heard of that before. *Note to self, used racing harnesses probably = bad or soon to be bad...* Thanks, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Correct Lone. The OEM stuff is probably not too good after a few years either. How many people get into a fender bender and replace their belts? Think insurance would even cover it? It's supposed to be done but I don't know anyone that's ever done it! OEM belts stretch too, I've hit mine hard enough in the past to actually feel it. Sometimes the mechanism that holds them tight gets worn too and the belt can fray there as well - not cool. Wonder when we'll see a 60Minutes special on this? Will TRY to get out there for some pics today. Was supposed to have a new camera by now for better pics but the guy on E-Bay is hosing me. Grr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Hmmm, Bungee huh? Whats it stop you JUST before you hit the windshield? (J/K, not familiar with that brand... haha) Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 HaHAHAha! Heh, I figured it would be the last one on anyone's list before no seatbelts at all. lol David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Reminds me of a local guy that made the Darwin list (it's real!). Jumped off a railroad overpass with Bungee cords tid to his feet. Length of cords was greater than distance to ground - I kid you not! I've got Simpson belts in my car. Realize too that these can be "seasonal" in that during certain parts of the year they're not as stocked up. Since they have a "shelf life" you can understand why Mine are 3inch wide I believe and will be using the stock lap mounts and the rollbar to hold them down. I've got crotch belts but haven't mounted them and may wait a bit. Pyrotechnic pretensioners? Wazzat? First I've heard of them....?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Hmm, I'd homebuild alot of stuff, but bungee cords for diving off a trestle wouldn't be one of them. That'd be like making your own parachute and then jumping out of a plane to beta test it.. Dumb... haha.. Pyrotechnic pretensioner? Is that what they call those damn annoying adjusters freewheel and then pin you to your seat and won't let you close the door or roll down the window? (I hate that, only thing worse are those stupid ones that move when you hit the key, make you slap yourself in the face and stuff ) Regards, Lone [ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 BLKMGK, the pyrotechnic pretensioners work to take the slack out of a seatbelt upon frontal impact with another vehicle. They work on a rotary cam and the shotgun shell-type device explodes one after the other to move a cam when you crash into something--all the slack you thought you ever had (and then some) is taken out and your body stays very rigidly in the seat. The idea is to minimize stresses to the human body and keep you away from the front airbag. This is a very trick device that you'll find in many cars today. But, because the device is "explosive," you'll find that most car manufacturers will not say much on the subject to just avoid hysteria. Airbags are the same thing: although the mention them, they avoid how the bags actually deploy... BTW, the devices are found by the floor usually. You'd never know what it was either. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 I totally forgot about the issue of "shelf life" on the belts and the fact that they do stretch after an impact. OEM seatbelts are supposed to be changed after an accident. With the newer seatbelts having pyrotechnic pretensioners, it will get replaced anyway, but what about all of those cars that don't have them and the insurance company doesn't specify they be changed? Lawsuit anyone? Not a good situation. I think I'll still use aftermarket harnesses, but I would really like to hear what brands the guys here recommend... Jamex? Kirkey? Simpson? Sports Racing Akimoto? Bungee? What? (sorry about the spelling on these) David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Has anyone had the air-bag deploy? I knew they used a charge, I just wondered how loud it was. Must be a impressive charge to fill the bag in fractions of a second... Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 Well, it is. That's why the first airbags were killing people once in a while. I want to say that they use a primary explosive like mercury fulmonate, but it's been too long for me to remember. All cars now use a "decelerated" airbag now. I don't like them, but people who have gone through an accident with them say they are a good idea. Interesting to note, Car & Driver always bashes them and brings up stats to show that they are not the best idea the "safety nazis" have ever come up with. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.