Lason Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Lets talk about some things that don't belong on a sports car... besides sharing it's chassis with a luxury sedan.... Power windows' date=' Power locks, Power mirrors, Power trunk release, Heated mirrors Tilt steering(simple is ok), rear window wiper, excess noise insulation, lighted vanity mirrors, Homelink crap, Power seats, Heated seats, Oversized stereo system, Tire pressure monitoring system(WTF lazy bastards), Power steering must make it hard for you noodle armed ninnies to feel a flat... Illuminated steering wheel-mounted audio controls, I could see the argument that you can't reach the passenger door from the driver's seat, but if the damn car was not such a big boat you could reach the passenger side window crank.... the same would apply to the passenger side power mirror... Power seats for a sports car are rediculous... sports cars are personal things.. letting someone else drive your sports car is like sharing your toothbrush... you might do it for your wife... but with some reservation...[/quote'] So by YOUR definition, a Lambo isnt a sports car? What about a Modena? They all have power seats/mirrors/windows etc and have stereos. I think your deffenition of a sports car is a little different than other peoples (like mine). My deffenition is a 2 door car that is designed foe performance. Sweet and simple. I have a friend that ordered a '99 Z28 with no grounds effects, cloth interior, all manual, etc etc. The only thing he couldnt get was a a/c and radio delete. But they didnt last 10 minutes after he got the car home. Does that constitute a sports car by your standards? Because to me that is a stripped down track whore. Oh and Ford is falling apart? They are having their fair share of issues but do you REALLY think they will be shutting their doors in our lifetime? I dont. And the mustang is one of their main sources of sales here in the states so it wont be going anywhere unless they somehow figure out a way to screw it up for the 16 year old girls as badly as GM did with the 4th gen f-body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 posted by bjhines: I want to slap the marketing lady who is putting the Skyline badge on the "general purpose" chassis they call the G35, 350Z, etc... I guarantee she has never seen an engine in real life... I'd buy THAT for a dollar! I don't understand why there is no entry level RWD car available anymore. After the AE86, pretty much all there was left was the 240sx line up, and now we don't even have that. I hate being told what I'm supposed to like, whether it be my music, my shoes, or my cars. My wife/friends/casual acquaintances/strangers off the street ask for my opinion on things like what my favorite car are, or should I get this wheel for my car, they are always amazed about what I pull out of my ass. I have the hardest time shopping for skate shoes, because I know what makes a good skate shoe, but for some reason the perfectly good model that was available last year has been replaced with some crappy shoe that may or may not look better, but certainly performs worse for it's intended application. Cars and wheels follow this trend as well. There isn't much on the market I even like, and the few that I do think are worth owning are out of my price range. Life is so unfair... *edit* I'd say Lambo falls into the supercar category, even though it no longer comes from the factory with lamborghini doors. You have to buy those kits extra now from an import magazine. Ferrarri's are pretty much either GT cruisers or supercars, depending on which model you get. A fine line, to be sure, but I would agree with BJ that there is a line there somewhere. However, I'd put the Japan market S13 sylvia into the sports car category. *edit**edit* here's a link to an article about the dire straights that ford is going through in the business section of www.cnn.com. Bj might be a little inflamatory with his predictions, but ford IS in trouble. http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/news/companies/ford_is_it_enough/index.htm?postversion=2006091518 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 We have a winner... A LAMBO IS NOT A SPORTS CAR!!!! it is a SUPERCAR... totally different market.. totally different price range, totally fantasy... I am discussing REAL CARS.... not dream cars... back to the REAL WORLD.. not the MTV version... About the Domestics.. Ford and GM especially... They already rebadge imports for most of their passenger car lineup... They WILL STOP MAKING PASSENGER CARS ENTIRELY WITHIN 10 YEARS.. they will still be around.. but the only things they will actually produce will be commercial vehicles... the rest will be rebadged imports... AND!!!!!!! it seems to me that a world in which 16 year old girls determine the design and performance of the automobile industry products IS A SCARY PLACE TO LIVE!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 I don't think this needs to get personal...this was a pretty fun thread, but now it will probably get shut down... I really don't even desire a modern supercar. I've always been the type to find something neat, and tweak it a little bit. I prefer the idea of a sleeper, even though you'd never know that by looking at my z. I'd be much more likely to spend that kind of money on a house, and then take the change leftover and resto-mod something older. It's just so much more exclusive to have something original. I read an article in Grass Roots Motorsports about Adam Carrolla's cars, and he said something along the lines of "Most celebrities just get the same old car. Why would you want the same hummer or bently or whateve as everybody else? Get something original." That's why he drives a 510 signed by Mr. K with a normally aspirated FJ20 with dual side draught carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 ok... I'll keep it less sensational... I edited the previous posts... Keep in mind that even a stripped down Z28 is still NOT A SPORTS CAR... it is a pony car. There is a problem with defining the term "sports car"... I will leave it to history... Lets put it all in perspective.... The 240Z was the definition of the term "sports car".. it was/is still the best, most popular, most recognized, most sold, most successful, most well respected Sports Car EVER IN THE HISTORY OF HUMAN ENDEVOR... PERIOD! If your definition strays too far from the BASELINE set by the Datsun 240Z.. then you need to get some history and experience in here to back it up... In fact... the only thing that the 240Z failed to do that many other sports cars accomplished... was... It was never offered in a convertable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 since we seem to be arguing semantics at this point, www.dictionary.com defines sports car to be: a:a small, high-powered automobile with long, low lines, usually seating two persons. b: An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds. c:a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons There were no results for "pony car," but it generally refers to mustangs and camaros (I've heard it applied to some others, but I've never seen an official list or description) Also, sports car or no, I bet you could have a LOT of fun in a stripped down Z28... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lason Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 since we seem to be arguing semantics at this point' date=' www.dictionary.com defines sports car to be: a:a small, high-powered automobile with long, low lines, usually seating two persons. b: An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds. c:a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons There were no results for "pony car," but it generally refers to mustangs and camaros (I've heard it applied to some others, but I've never seen an official list or description) Also, sports car or no, I bet you could have a LOT of fun in a stripped down Z28... So the corvette would be classified as a sports car huh? Been in production since '56 to present day. I bet it outsold the datsuns LOL, I will agree with bjhines on most of that though but I refuse to say one car is the best hands down. If your into 4 and 6 cylinder imports then you'll have your fav, if your into V8's then youll have that fav. I just wanted to clear up the mustang and f-body post I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 I too would argue that the 240z is probably NOT the most recognizable. I don't know HOW many time I've had to explain that my 280z was in fact NOT a porsche to someone that barely knew their own name, but they sure knew what a porsche looked like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 LOL... To anyone who asks me "what is that"?.. I respond with.. "It is a Tokyo Ferrari"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lason Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 LOL... To anyone who asks me "what is that"?.. I respond with.. "It is a Tokyo Ferrari"... I just tell them its my bastard car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 LOL.. I am enjoying this thread!!!!! I must say that people may not recognize the 240Z as much as it's success would warrant... But.. if you look at historical accounts of the evolution of the vehicles we drive AND the makers of those machines... The Datsun 240Z holds a pivotal position in both regards... ask anyone who knows this rich history of the machines and the manufacturers... "What is the most defining, possibly best all around SPORTS CAR of all time???" and 8 out of 10 will say "The Datsun 240Z"... This was/is a double edged sword... It seems that prior to the introduction of the 240Z there were a lot of players in the "sports car" market... small, spartan, quick little 2 seaters were being produced by manufacturers all over the world... some were indeed expensive... but there were a lot of choices competing in the same class... Then came Datsun... the 240Z set a new bar in sports car performance and accessability.. they also created a car with unparalled reliability for the money... they made them cheap, they printed them like newspapers, and they cleaned up the competition on the track.... within 5 years they were pretty much the only sports car available... most of hte European makers were bankrupted by the quick little Datsun... Ferrari was thought to be quite mad to build small cars around a V12 powerplant in the 1950s... But that is where the definition of a "Sports car" begins to diverge between SuperCar and SportsCar.... Ferrari wanted to build an exclusive car... He wanted to beat the big automakers at the pinnacle of performance engineering... He was successful to a point that has made his name one of the most well recognized in the automotive world... but He never competed with them in profitability or corporate viability... Ferrari and all the other supercar makers have pigeonholed themselves into producing ONLY SUPERCARS... They cannot afford to produce a large number of cheap cars.. they cannot compete with the big automakers in this area.. their names would have faded long ago if they had ever geared themselves towards large numbers of cheap cars... They are not real... they are the stuff of dreams... You could strap a rocket motor on it and send it to the MOON... but it is not a sports car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memegtr Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 well, if I indulge myself with another Z, it would be the 1996 biT 300zx, it looks and probably feels better than that yellow thing.....thats what happens when someone got their ride pimped..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Keep in mind that they (300ZXTT) do not hold together on a road track.... that is a drag racer pony car... the smaller sports cars will dance around you... and then they will laugh as the towtruck brings your smoking hulk in to pit.... Our club lost 3 of them last year.... the owners have moved on to Miatas, E36 BMWs, and E30 BMWs... one of the owners has a 240Z.. but he is not mechanicly inclined enough to run it on track... the BMW E36 M-COUPE was the ticket for him... I like the BMW sedans.. they are the best choice for a double duty Street/Track car... but they are still not a sports car... oddly enough the E-36 M-COUPE and the antique 240Z fall into the same street prepared class... even with all of the HIGH$$$$$$$$$ advantages the BMW has.. they do not win against the 240Z easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Weight and weight distribution are the most important factors in determining how well a sports car performs... look at the weights of the cars available... I would feel better classifying a Honda FIT as a sports car than a 300ZXTT... I guarantee the FIT could be made faster than the 300ZX for less money... with more reliability and FAAAARRRRR LOWER operating costs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 LOL... To anyone who asks me "what is that"?.. I respond with.. "It is a Tokyo Ferrari"... My first Z, raggedy a$$ '73 with glass hood, fenders, 3.90 diff, small cam, dual SU's. I gave a friend a ride home one day, Chirped 2nd as I pulled away. Then his local buddies/neighbors started to gather. They all say "do a burnout"! So, I back up, rev the ole' L24, and dump the clutch at 6,000 rpm. It was quite the burnout. They say we gotta see the motor, ok. Then the "smartest" looking of the bunch says, "look at that, dual fuel injection"! I must have laughed for half an hour. Anyway, the S30 defines the term sport car as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Id like also to see something like a Lotus. A car with similair track/wheelbase as 240z's, superlight but not a mixture of carbon fiber and graphite that bumps the price up. Tuned suspension and not realistic but a new 6 cyl motor ohc 4 valve (like hondas unicam) that generates around 200-240hp. Not a lot of options that moves it out of the sports car relm, and last but not least real, chrome, bumpers. Then make prototypes for all the hybridz members to drive and own. free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I hear you... I am absoutely sure that a car like that would be a big seller... No one thought the 240Z would be a success when it was introduced... but they made it anyway... The market conditions were almost the same as they are today... people were buying bigger, heavier, INCREDIBLY HIGH HORSEPOWER cars in the early 1970s... most of the cars offered were getting more and more options on base models, etc, etc, etc... The conditions today are ripe for a cheap, high performance car... People are looking to smaller cars that offer better gas mileage and are fun to drive... The general public is getting weary of the GIANT SUVs... I for one would be open to purchasing a spartan but fast sports car that is in the same price range as a Hoda Civic, or FIT.... Nissan needs to open their eyes... they have a famous brand that they are NOT making use of... No one really sees the 350Z(X) as a Z.... it is just another ZX... Nissan needs to reintroduce a 240Z for the 21st century... keep it under 2300lbs and give it no more than 200HP... give it a modern suspension bolted firmly to the stiff chassis, modern brakes and drivetrain... but keep it light... It does not need to be low slung.. it does not need to be particulary stylish... it does not need a 6 cylinder engine (but it would be nice)... and the real kicker.. it needs to be less than $25,000.... ABSOLUTLEY DO NOT give it power windows or power locks... it does not need to be quiet inside... keep the wheel size small and cheap... I am not so sure it needs airbags.. but that may be mandated now... If it must have power equipment... hten only do it in the passenger side door... leave the drivers side clean and light... this would help with weight distribution if they MUST have power accessories... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Currently the srt4 is the fastest car under 20 grand. They need a car thatll be cheaper and faster. They need to go for simplicity, simplicity is key to a successful sports car. Look at the Cobras they were small light powerful and simple cars, and they pretty much won any race they entered. What would they call the car if they built a new 3 liter or 2.8 liter motor? Would it be 280z,300z,or 350z, odds are theyd keep the current 3.5 l and just call it the new 350z. But what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I think that the horsepower of the current 350Z engine is too high... Don't get me wrong.. I am building a ZZ4 powered 240Z track car right now... But the higher horsepower means that the entire drivetrain would weigh more... much more... It would probably need to get a 4 cylinder engine to make it viable... even an L-6 would make it more complex and more expensive.. If we want another 240Z we are probably going to have to accept a 4 cylinder engine... The hoodline would have to be much lower to meet modern aerodynamic standards... it is unlikely that we could really get a car that looks a lot like a 240Z... windshield angle would have to be much lower... the roofline would need to be higher for rollover proteciton... the rear sails and the rear hatch would also have to change considerably... the sides of the car would probably end up more vertical... they could not be tucked in at the bottom the way the classic 240Z sides do.... In all honesty... I don't really need the new car to look like a 240Z... as long as it is light, quick, and cheap... If they come up with something like that... A personal sports coupe... I would be the first in line to pre-order from the dealer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I still say the QR25DE would be a good rear wheel drive engine for a small sports coupe. I wouldn't even mind if it looked more like a 510. An RWD sentra SE-R. If there were a tranny to do that conversion, I'd be considering it for my 280z right now. I think something that looked like a 510 or a Hakosuka would be great. I don't mind if it doesn't look like a z, so long as it gets the job done with some character. Like the new GTO, crunch the numbers and it's a great car, but look at it, and it looks like it was designed to be a rental car. No character at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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