savageskaterkid Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I am in the process of buying a MSnS extra computer and wiring harness from a fellow Z friend, and I plan to set it up to run methanol. I know that methonal has a diffrent A:F ratio then gasoline, what is it, so I can tune for that. What is the ideal compression to run methonal at? Would a regular wideband O2 work, or would I have to find one specifically for alcohal? Since it burns cooler, should I use a diffrent temp sensor? or should I just program the ECU for colder temps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I am in the process of buying a MSnS extra computer and wiring harness from a fellow Z friend' date=' and I plan to set it up to run methanol. What is the ideal compression to run methonal at? Would a regular wideband O2 work, or would I have to find one specifically for alcohal? Since it burns cooler, should I use a diffrent temp sensor? or should I just program the ECU for colder temps?[/quote'] 14 or 15:1 is norm, high is 19:1, low is 9:1, requires gasoline or starting fluid to light off under 40 degrees especially with low compression. Regular wideband works fine, just doesn't last as long. You have to reset your calibration I think. Program for colder temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 It seemed like a good idea, up untill today when I brought it up to my boss. He sells meth for about 1.90 a gallon-sounds really good, WELL ITS TRUE. Except thats for off-road meth. I plan on running it on the street, mostly just to get to the track. But to get meth thats street legal is like 5.75 a gallon now. Doesn't seem worth it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 It seemed like a good idea, up untill today when I brought it up to my boss. He sells meth for about 1.90 a gallon-sounds really good, WELL ITS TRUE. Except thats for off-road meth. I plan on running it on the street, mostly just to get to the track. But to get meth thats street legal is like 5.75 a gallon now. Doesn't seem worth it anymore. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 What are you talking about? Uh yeah...what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 My boss will sell me methonal for 1.90 a gallon, but its off-road methonal. Its kind of like off-road diesel. Its really cheap, but thats because you don't pay taxes on it. If you want to use it for the street you have to goto a station that sells methanol with the DOT taxes and such, and you get taxed HARD for it. Its 5.75 a gallon to buy a street-legal methanol. My dillema is the fact that I don't have a trailer and need to drive to the track, my boss will not sell to anybody with license plates on the car, hes just covering his ass and I understand that. I also heard that C16 is like 4.75 around here, so thats not too bad, I may just use premium on the street and C16 at the track then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Va must be weird. Here you can buy meth (both kinds) about anywhere. The liquid fuel type goes for about $2/gallon. I don't know about the other kind of meth and have never heard of road taxed methanol, but I guess maybe you learn something new everyday. I'll do a check and see what I find, something doesn't sound right with your statement though. Well, I did a check and your boss appears to be incorrect. Any alcohol or blend of alcohol, that is 80% or greater, is Federally exempt from road taxes under a new provision of the law, federal excise tax or federal road use tax because it is a "clean fuel". It would have been taxable under the old regulation but only the same tax that applies to gasoline which in VA is 17.5 and 16 cents per gallon for a total of 33.5 cents per gallon. So if he was collecting more than $2.34/gallon, then he's making a decent profit. Anyway, that's what I found with alittle searching, based on API, Fed register search on fuel taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Savage, I can only assume that you are talking about running methanol injection not straight methanol. I am currently running meth injection on my L28. Stoic for methanol is 6.5:1, however since you are only injecting a comparatively small amount along with gasoline it only has a small effect on your target AFR's. I tune WOT to about 11.2:1 instead of 11.8:1 I dont think that you should be concerned with a different static compression to run with meth injection. I can buy methanol here for $3 a gallon at my local dragstrip, making it a much better option than race gas for a street car IMO. If its meth injection you're talking about, I wouldnt be overly concerned about added wear on an O2 sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Hmmm, didn't even look into the road tax thing at all, I'll deffinitly lookin into it a bit more though. Garrett, I don't mean methanol injection in small amounts, I mean to run a straight methonal instead of gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 For a daily driver, I'd say no. Methanol is hydroponic and will cause you problems if you leave it in the tank for extended periods. It helps to have a sump in the tank and draw from that cause then whatever water is in there goes into the carb. You'll notice a stumbling or miss for awhile till it's all gone. You have to run a stainless filter also, but they are cheap. THe other problem is it attacks carbs pretty bad. I disassemble mine every time I use it and blow it dry and spray penetrating oil everywhere. EFI would be interesting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 THe other problem is it attacks carbs pretty bad. I disassemble mine every time I use it and blow it dry and spray penetrating oil everywhere. EFI would be interesting though. I had an old Rupp 600 Nitro Drag Racing Sled. There were several stickers on the cowl: "Carburettors Equipped For Methanol, Change Diaphragms After Every Racing Day" It is VERY corrosive, more than a stainless filter, you would be well advised to run stainless on all your fuel lines, run a methanol resistant slushed tank, and consider a Glasfibre Reinforced Nylon 66 Fuel Rail (which helps with heat, but that's beside the pint) for your injectors. Keep in mind that the AFR is around 7:1 as stated above, roughly twice the normal stoch for gasoline. That means injectors that are BIG. Twice what you normally would run for the same gasoline engine. And the injectors will have to be methanol compatible as well. For the effort, you may as well run CNG using salvaged components. Octane of 120+, the ability to carry at least 5 gallons equivalent onboard a Z-Car, and a cost around $2 a gallon, unless you get a home fueling unit (about $2K) and then your fuel costs are around .40 cents a gallon.... You will need some big injectors for that as you are injecting gasseous fuel instead of liquid, but IMO the conversion is probably slightly more practical if you have a CNG station nearby (mine is 2.5 miles from my house, on the way to the nearest 1/8 mile strip! So yeah, that's why I was thinking about it so much!) Methanol is nasty, corrosive stuff. Stainless and Plastic Fuel system components. But it will be a hoot. Ignition at colder temps shouldn't be as much an issue with EFI as carbs. My ethanol experiment wouldn't start (carburetted) at colder temps (needed a preheater), but EFI would change all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 I have heard of using stainless injectors, where to find them you ask-well, i'm not quite sure. This would be anything BUT a daily driver, only used to actually drive to and from the track. Maybe for a few cruise-ins, thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 I use the aeroquip qft race hose, it's teflon lined, quite a bit smaller in OD than the normal steel braid hose with the same ID. Takes different fittings which happen to be stainless. No problems here with that setup. ACCEL makes injectors, most have stainless parts inside, but theirs are methanol compatible, they make both low and high impedence ones I believe. I was going to go accel EFI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I have been doing some research on running E85 in my 510.I currently run Klotz Uplon in the methanol injection fuel cell, this prevents the methanol from absorbing large amounts of water and quells the corosive properties.The fuel tank will either have to be nickle plated on the inside or a plastic fuel cell will have to be used.A Bosch 044 fuel pump is methanol compatable.Stainless or alcohol compatable plastic fuel line must be used.The regulator That I am going to be using is a Mallory 4305 EFI regulator with a hard anodized fuel rail and all fuel fittings will be hard anodized ,nickle plated, stainless steel or brass.The Fuel injectors will be alcohol compatable 1600cc Bosch Injectors part# 0280150839. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsMODS.asp#cngrec http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MAA%2D4305M&N=700+1004+115&autoview=sku http://quickstreetcars.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=3780#post3780 http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/nickel.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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