Fuel sipper idea i've been kicking around

[GrayZee]

GraZee: the point of the turbocharger is to use some of the energy (heat) lost in the exhaust. I doubt that it would mean boosting to the point where the cooling advantages of water injection are needed. The water injection would be there to allow the engine to use less fuel. From what I have read an engine can be leaned with the use of water injection, and that is the reason why I mentioned it in the original list of mods.

 

 

Yeah, generally turbo's and fuel mileage don't go hand it hand. I doubt water injection would be much of a help in the case of what you are talking about just based on having to hold a extra container full of a heavy liquid. I go though a 1gallon container for roughly one tank of gas, but that is only spraying under boost. I imagine that spaying at a more constant rate as you are suggesting that you would need a much larger reservoir. Definatly not worth the weight penalty.

[olie05]

Build your own hybrid? Electric motor and controller from a forklift, with a small diesel genset? A few batteries to offset peak current?

 

that was a question?

 

Yeah, generally turbo's and fuel mileage don't go hand it hand. I doubt water injection would be much of a help in the case of what you are talking about just based on having to hold a extra container full of a heavy liquid. I go though a 1gallon container for roughly one tank of gas, but that is only spraying under boost. I imagine that spaying at a more constant rate as you are suggesting that you would need a much larger reservoir. Definatly not worth the weight penalty.

 

You are right, the amount of water I carry would have a weight penalty, but the amount of fuel I wouldn't be wasting is worth it. Also, water (even distilled) is cheaper than gasoline (last time I checked)

 

I dont know if your turbo and fuel mileage generalization is very good either, however, I'm not going to argue with your generalization. All I can tell you is that whatever car I get, I will be able to make it more efficient by using a turbocharger, and I won't be the first to do it.

[veritech-z]

I've heard tell that the prius turbo kits add a significant amount to the mileage. Adding a turbo or a supercharger allows you to make more power at a lower engine speed, so as long as you don't get on the gas more than normal, you should be able to use that to your advantage in regards to fuel savings.

[olie05]

I've heard tell that the prius turbo kits add a significant amount to the mileage. Adding a turbo or a supercharger allows you to make more power at a lower engine speed, so as long as you don't get on the gas more than normal, you should be able to use that to your advantage in regards to fuel savings.

 

Actually, from what I have read, bigger mileage gains are available through turbo charging, because you are using energy that would otherwise be wasted. In supercharging you are using energy that would otherwise be going to the wheels.

[veritech-z]

I'm sure that's true, I was just making the point that boost increases power at a given rpm, so you wouldn't need as much pedal to get the same result in performance compared to NA.

[ZR8ED]

Well a quick answer, (this would apply to any car.)

 

Reduce weight where possible and practical.

Sound deadner,

smaller gel cell battery

smaller narrow tires

Remove any unessesary trim, lose the passenger side mirror (not required)

also the antenna if exterior.

Then try filling in gaps in trim and body (think ala duct tape if ya want cheap)

(the 240 picked up extra mph simply smoothing the seams around the windsheild with ductape)

 

Lower the suspension. aluminum belly pan under the car where practical. Front air dam if possible, smoothout the front end of the car.. think headlight covers, reducing the rad opening etc..

 

For the driveline.

remove any unused parts ie air con, drive belts for not working acces.

p&p heads, exhaust, any/all passeges for air/fuel,oil/coolant etc make sure your waterpump housing is port matched.. that kind of stuff.

freeflow exhaust (mandrel bends..not neccessarily huge diameter stuff)

Freeflow air intake.

 

You want to increase the VE of your engine. (volumetric efficiency) where possible.

 

Good luck.. hmm while I'm at it maybe i should look at my own commuter car?

Scott

[savageskaterkid]

Build your own hybrid? Electric motor and controller from a forklift, with a small diesel genset? A few batteries to offset peak current?

 

I have looked into doing this too. Have you researched this at all? I plan on using it on my Z, not so much of a mileage thing, but an assist with the gas motor. Kind of like what honda uses. The biggest problem being the fact that the electric motors from the hondas don't use 12 volts. Its somewhere between 300-600 volts(just an estimate, I don't have the exact numbers yet), which is why there is 8 batteries in my hybrid. Doesn't seem like a big deal, seeing as how there not HUGE batteries, actually quite small. The electric motor acts as a generator when not in use. How do I use this in my Z? I thought about mounting it to the front pulley with a chain somehow-it can be done. But how do I charge those batteries? I doubt a regular alternator is gonna charge upto 300 volts. Not trying to put you down, I'm actually trying to get some answers from this.

[olie05]

I have looked into doing this too. Have you researched this at all? I plan on using it on my Z, not so much of a mileage thing, but an assist with the gas motor. Kind of like what honda uses. The biggest problem being the fact that the electric motors from the hondas don't use 12 volts. Its somewhere between 300-600 volts(just an estimate, I don't have the exact numbers yet), which is why there is 8 batteries in my hybrid. Doesn't seem like a big deal, seeing as how there not HUGE batteries, actually quite small. The electric motor acts as a generator when not in use. How do I use this in my Z? I thought about mounting it to the front pulley with a chain somehow-it can be done. But how do I charge those batteries? I doubt a regular alternator is gonna charge upto 300 volts. Not trying to put you down, I'm actually trying to get some answers from this.

 

 

now thats a thread hi-jack... get your own

[Challenger]

Ive always thought it would be cool if you put a cvt in fr the rear end and have different modes for the cvt like a auto mode or a dial for different ratios (dodges has a manual shift mode with programmable ratios that you can shift). Then make a engine with really high tourque at idle. Then drive every where at idle and get great mileage....hopefully....

 

Or buy a scooter.

[JMortensen]

I'd go after aerodynamics too. If you start with a reasonably aerodynamic car and then as was already stated lower it, put on a smooth airdam, cover the wheel wells, tape the seams (I like that idea a lot), run skinnies with high pressure, etc I think that would go a long way towards getting better mileage. Also I can personally back up the ported head, open exhaust, open intake ideas. I did all of those things and also got a high lift short duration cam and threw that into my 2wd 93 Toyota P/U and it got low to mid 30's mileage. That's pretty good for a truck!

[SHO-Z]

I think you need to look at the intake and exhaust. Put a cool air set up behind the grill with an open end box to force the air into the air cleaner when driving. The exhaust header and free flow exhaust system. This is the most bang for the buck to get mileage that I know.

 

We got better than 60 MPG out of a BMW 700 Sport Coupe in an economy rally back in the 60s. And that thing would chow Mini Coopers any day of the week.

[MusPuppis]

The turdcel should have the 3efe motor in it, ultra efficient, they go forever. Really, even though they come with a 4speed its geared well. You can find a 5 speed out of an early 90's Paseo and if I'm not mistaken its a direct bolt-in, I think you have to swap shift linkage or something and thats it. However, that transmission is geared close and I'm betting the 4spd in the 'Cel will out do it for fuel mileage. My Paseo (Yeah, I hear you poeple laughing. It even had the J-spec 5efhe swap, ha) cruising at 70mph was sitting at like 3300rpm, not so efficient.

 

Man, as mentioned though, you cant beat the CRX HF. A bud had one that we eventually ZC swapped, but before the swap, that little ♥♥♥♥ was INCREDIBLE. It didnt even take gas. You just drove close to a gas station and sat for a few minutes, just let it absorb some fumes through the body panels and you had a weeks worth of driving in it. When it ran outa gas, I think it just switched to friggen solar power or somethin, cause it never stopped, ha.

[GrayZee]

You are right, the amount of water I carry would have a weight penalty, but the amount of fuel I wouldn't be wasting is worth it. Also, water (even distilled) is cheaper than gasoline (last time I checked)

 

I dont know if your turbo and fuel mileage generalization is very good either, however, I'm not going to argue with your generalization. All I can tell you is that whatever car I get, I will be able to make it more efficient by using a turbocharger, and I won't be the first to do it.

 

 

A generalization is exactly what it was, I do believe that you can increase VI with a turbocharger, it's just that you have to know where to draw the line. Too much boost (or using it too much) isn't good for fuel mileage. I believe that since I turbocharged my Z that the car is both better (and worse on fuel) As long as you drive it nice, it's better, but if you hammer the go pedal than definatly not. However there is likely a reason that the Mecedes "smart car" has a turbo. Building a ultra fuel efficient car is not a easy task. Automotive engineers have fought with that one for decades. It is certainly alot easier to build a faster car than to make it more fuel efficient. I am not saying that you can't do it, I wish you luck and will enjoy reading any updates on your success.

[Okimoto]

I've been thinking about this all day and cant see a reason why not to try it. Instead of water, use hydrogen peroxide. If I'm not mistaken, the water and oxygen will separate when it reaches the combustion chamber due to the extreme heat, which will give the car more oxygen and also the water will cool the combustion chamber. It worked that way in my fish tank. It's just like nitrous oxide, instead of nitrogen and oxygen as the results... you get water and oxygen. That's the best of both worlds. Someone get a rental car and try it. I mean buy a used rental car... yeah...

 

Use direct turbo, no intercooler, one bottle of hydrogen peroxide and a long tube. Squeeze bottle for passing power.

[Okimoto]

I have looked into doing this too. Have you researched this at all? I plan on using it on my Z, not so much of a mileage thing, but an assist with the gas motor. Kind of like what honda uses. The biggest problem being the fact that the electric motors from the hondas don't use 12 volts. Its somewhere between 300-600 volts(just an estimate, I don't have the exact numbers yet), which is why there is 8 batteries in my hybrid. Doesn't seem like a big deal, seeing as how there not HUGE batteries, actually quite small. The electric motor acts as a generator when not in use. How do I use this in my Z? I thought about mounting it to the front pulley with a chain somehow-it can be done. But how do I charge those batteries? I doubt a regular alternator is gonna charge upto 300 volts. Not trying to put you down, I'm actually trying to get some answers from this.

 

Try 24/36/48 volts. Thats what a forklift/scissorlift/golfcart will run at. These are plentiful in the industrial salvage yards. If you use 2-3 of these controllers in set on the z, i think you can get a good amount of go from it.

 

The issue of charging can be resolved using a mechanical 3 phase converter directly linked to the driveline. you can just leave it running no load until you need it. That will produce more than enough power to charge the battery thru a forklift battery charger. The only issues would be the skill involved in repackaging the components and weight.