EvilC Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 http://www.fast-autos.net/forum/showthread.php?t=416 Hey what would you guys buy: New Skyline New Bmw M3 New Supra ?????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotimport Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 That Supra sure looks nice, but not for $50K defenatlly not. On the other hand there saying that it should keep company to the new release of a Skyline which will be priced at around $70K and i dont know about comapring 2 of those since the Supra will be a V8 vs V6 and turbo or maybe 2 twin turbos. I cant wait my friend that works at the Nissan dealer ship promised me that they will have 2 of them unless they sell them before hand. Need to wait like another year oh well patience is everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerBjt Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I talked to a guy at the nissan dealership a few days ago (he was a Z fan!), but he said they have guaranteed that the skyline will have atleast 450hp, but most likely they will upgrade it to 500 to compete with the Supra, sadly its most likely gonna be a V-6 twin turbo. Would have been nice to see a twin turbo V-8 out of a japanese company stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsun350Z Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 It would be nice... anyone have a big shoehorn? I talked to a guy at the nissan dealership a few days ago (he was a Z fan!), but he said they have guaranteed that the skyline will have atleast 450hp, but most likely they will upgrade it to 500 to compete with the Supra, sadly its most likely gonna be a V-6 twin turbo. Would have been nice to see a twin turbo V-8 out of a japanese company stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotimport Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I think that the mysterious skyline will change alot before it hits North American Nissan dealership. Just because the release date in Japan wont make a big impact on Skyline here in US, it will be diffrent from the Japanese version, i could be wrong. But we know for sure that the top model of the GTR will be 450 hp in V6 twin turbo. There will be other version of it like a Naturally aspirated V6 or V8, but the ultimate is 450 hp twin turbo with a price tag ticking over $70K for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Isn't that kind of a price tag what got the last round of baby supercars cancelled? Nobody wanted to pay those kinds of prices for something that didn't come from a high-end company. Z32, SupraTT, RX-7tt, 3000gtVR-4, MR-2 turbo...they just priced themselves right out of the market last time around, and it looks like they're about to do it again. The original versions of all those cars (minus the 3kGT since it had no antecedants) began their lives as ENTRY LEVEL SPORTS CARS that enabled normal people with normal sized wallets to enjoy driving, but as time went on they got more and more complicated, and more and more expensive, until they got cancelled. I don't see that changing this time around...what is so hard about releasing a truly entry level car that is fun to drive and not a total piece of crap? Is there really no market for that? I find that hard to believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotimport Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Well i dont know much about it as far as pricing goes but i will give you an example since my friend is a Nissan dealer. Take 350z and G-35. The release of 350z was an incrediblle success in Japan and US. After a short while about a year came the G-35 in both versions couple and sedan, which were more expensive considering it was an Infinity and had leather heated seats, fully loaded with navigation. Which the 350z only came in a Track edition for about 36-38K brand new that had Brembos and Navigation. On the other hand you could of gotten a fully loaded G-35 coupe with everything listed above for 43-44K. You get the point... So there will be same exact demand with the GTR being run under Nissan for a year and then swithcing over to Infinity for more $$$ on allmost the same car with a bit more options but same motor and drivetrain. On the other note that Max brough why all these sports car were dieing out from production. It was simplly because Supra only made that far without flunking some emission problems and safety issues, same follows for the Acura NSX that couldnt make it to production for the same reason, also that will include the Toyota MR-2 the greates and the funnest car i had ever owned only made a run for 5 years. I guess you get the picture WHY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I think the real reason those cars died is because the prices had almost doubled from the previous generation, and the core market was unable to afford them, not because toyota couldn't get their flagship to pass emissions. Why would I pay $40,000 for a toyota? or a Nissan? That mentality is very much alive in this country (probably others), which is what prompted the rebadge movement of the early 90's when we saw the birth of Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus. That way Nissan, Honda, and Toyota could fool the fickle public into thinking that they were actually getting a high end product that was somehow fundamentally different than what their neighbor the college student was driving. I'ver heard it said that the high sticker price and low sale volume of the final Z32's were partially responsible for Nissan being forced to sell a controlling interest to Renault. That's why for several years, they ONLY sold 4 door cars and small SUV's, because that was a garaunteed sale, and they couldn't afford to speculate on a high end sports car. If the cars were selling, they would have found a way to make them pass emissions. If the cars were selling, they would have found a way to pass the crash standards. Car models live and die on sales volume. They just weren't moving the units, and there was no profit in producing that car. That's why you have so much "platforming" now. You can buy a 350z badged either as a 350z, a G35 coupe or sedan, or soon as a Skyline. That is just rediculous from an enthusiast's point of veiw, but makes great economic sense from an accountant's point of view. Anyway, I've got strong feelings about this issue, in case you guys couldn't tell. I don't mean to preach, so I'll climb down off my soapbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I'm pretty sure we won't see the Skyline here...but the GT-R. Of course, at first it seems that I'm purely spouting symantics, but in actualitly, the GT-R is supposed to be an entirely different car from the Skyline (which we already have...the G35). As for the subject of this thread, you really need a halo car if you're racing. Toyota races in various forms of motorsports and the most exciting thing I've seen them come out with lately is the hybrid Highlander (which is pretty quick to 60MPH). Toyota just needs something new and exciting. It will be nice to see them bring out a new Supra. I hope they keep the weight down and make it a fun car to drive. Couple that with Toyota reliability and a price that isn't outrageous, and they should have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Along the lines of what I was saying, winning races translates directly into vehicle sales. That's why Toyota is pushing their Nascar program with the tundra. I expect we'll probably see whatever this supra is if it comes out get a body in the regular nascar series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotimport Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Max i defenatlly agree with you on over pricing these sports cars. But that because there sports cars and everything is expensive in then, like parts, labor, insurance and etc. Toyota made a smart move with Nascar. But toyota and honda were the only ones that particapeted in building IRL, Champ Car which is American way of viewing Formula 1. So they have being doing this for quite some time now. Oh and they also want to realease a Police car with their avalon design fully equipted so there doing well in there advertisment. As far the cost of these sports cars they dont really depreciate in value and the production wont be that big of the mosters. So go figure if 50-70 grand will make a diffrent if people got the money they sure can afforded just like those that buy Vetts, Vipers and Porches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Hotimport, you're correct that the auto manufacturers have been racing pretty much since the beginning of the automobile, but in the final analysis, for them it is only a marketing tool. I'd be willing to bet that even here on Hybridz, if we took a poll of how many members who can actually afford to spend 50-70k on a sports car, those who would spend that kind of money on a Toyota Supra would be in the minority. I would further postulate that those who are NOT in a position to spend 50-70k on such a sports car would be among the first to say that they would buy a Supra. Why is that? It's because of brand identity. In this country, toyota does not have a performance image among the group of people that are in a position to buy a high dollar sports car. They are known (here is what matters) to the GENERAL PUBLIC as the producer of reliable trucks and sedans. It doesn't matter what the YOUTH MARKET thinks of them (those that grew up reading super street and seeing the Fast and the Furious, who KNOW that the Supra is the best thing since sliced bread) , since they are in no position to spend that kind of money on what toyota (or nissan, or honda) has to offer. For a good example of this, how many Volkswagon Phaeton W-12s have you seen on the road in your area? Have you even heard of that car? If so, then you know that it is a $60k+ sedan that looks like an oversized Passat. Why would I spend that kind of money on what to the average motorist looks like any other Volkswagon? My status car will probably be a BMW or Mercedes, because they are known as luxury manufacturers and I know that my $60k+ is going to get me the cachet that goes along with owning such a vehicle. In the home market, Toyota will probably sell these high dollar cars, but here in the states, and probably in Europe, I don't think it will move too fast off the showroom floor. A car like that is a marketing mistake in this country, in my opinion. If it is that much pricier than its competition (350z/rx-8), it will be outsold, bottom line. Toyota is making some suspect decisions in regards to that market segment lately (like the hot rod pickup that was supposed to be the 350z killer-as if anyone shopping for a sports CAR would walk off the lot to go buy a truck), and it's a shame in my opinion that they just gave that market up to nissan and mazda. If they want to make money, they need to redesign the AE86, and compete with the miata. Of course, I'd also like to see Nissan re-release a 510, but I don't think that is going to happen either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Found some reference material: 1982,-celica supra -$15,838 1990-supra turbo-$25,200 1994-supra twin turbo-$44,100!!!!!(almost double in 4years...) 1986-300zx turbo(oldest one I could find)-$25,099 1996-300zxtwin turbo-$44,679 (see the pattern here?) 1988-MR-2 supercharged-$17,068 1995-mr-2 turbo-$29,238 1988 RX-7turbo-$22,750 1995 RX-7 twin turbo-$37,800 Amazing how the deaths of these cars coincides so nicely with their at least 50% increase in sticker price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames_187 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 leaves little room for imagination..or atleast thats what i think...most of us buy cars to build upon them for cheap...why buy a car with 300ish hp for close to 50 grand when u can buy something regular and hook it up with 300 hp for under 10g...which also makes me wonder where all these new kids getting their money from!!!watchin nopi tv and shows like that i see all these kids my age with $30,000 cars with another $30,000 in them!!!! sorry for the rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotimport Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Found some reference material: 1982,-celica supra -$15,838 1990-supra turbo-$25,200 1994-supra twin turbo-$44,100!!!!!(almost double in 4years...) 1986-300zx turbo(oldest one I could find)-$25,099 1996-300zxtwin turbo-$44,679 (see the pattern here?) 1988-MR-2 supercharged-$17,068 1995-mr-2 turbo-$29,238 1988 RX-7turbo-$22,750 1995 RX-7 twin turbo-$37,800 Amazing how the deaths of these cars coincides so nicely with their at least 50% increase in sticker price... I could defenatlly see the patter here. One thing though that i have mentioned before that MR-2 wasnt taken out of the production because of its high retail value. Just like the NSX and probablly the RX-7, since Mazda agreed that they had problems with it. Cant say much about supra since a 98 Supra TT quick silver is still worth about 40-45 with about 20K on clock. Because simplly they didnt lose their value since they were brand new. So i guess i partially agree with you Max. On the note of the thread i would probably say, that we should wait untill the release date of the Skyline and Supra and see their comparisons. It might be very explosive:flamedevi and powerfull !!! :burnout:But untill then il keep dreaming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Poly Zmanaustin Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Cant say much about supra since a 98 Supra TT quick silver is still worth about 40-45 with about 20K on clock. Because simplly they didnt lose their value since they were brand new. So i guess i partially agree with you Max. Just wanted to point out that you could add Supra to this mix since Toyota was putting heavy incentives on the cars and lowering production quantities all through its manufacturing run. It never caught on. Guys that purchase Corvettes, Porsches and Vipers don't really consider a Supra a high end performance car. The reason the Supras out there sell for a fortune is because there are very few available in the market. They have a cult following; so doe the Z32, but they are abundant in the market and still cheaper to modify due to more aftermarket support. Too bad because the Supra is a pretty nice car, but the price of admission for a used one is ridiculously high. I think most guys on this board would see a lot more bang for the buck in something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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